Additional Information
Matthew Herbert always responds to our world through the sounds he creates. In his own unique way, he advocates against the inequalities in our Western societies, and it is in this spirit that he composes, arranges, and produces electronic (and/or instrumental) music, drawing his sounds from the real world to transform them into art.
The British musician was a standout figure at the first edition of Mutek, but he had stopped coming to Montreal more than a decade ago, for reasons he’ll explain in the following interview.
Exceptionally, he has agreed to present the material from his upcoming album, The UK Has More Food Banks Than Branches of McDonald’s, in its North American premiere—for which he recorded sounds of food and provisions found in food banks.
The idea is to denounce the marked decline in empathy shown by wealthy societies toward the poor and migrants.
Connoisseurs of electronic music are well aware of his immense contribution to the genre; indeed, first-generation Mutek attendees surely remember his artistic significance. Over the course of his career, Herbert has recorded more than thirty solo albums, soundtracks for Oscar-winning films, as well as music for theater, musicals, television, video games, and radio. He has performed solo in concerts and as a DJ, as well as with various ensembles, including a 21-piece big band and a 100-member choir.
In addition to his North American premiere of *theukhasmorefoodbanksthanbranchesofmcdonalds.com* at the SAT on Wednesday (Nocturne Series 1), Matthew Herbert will be spinning records outdoors this week—on Friday at the Esplanade Tranquille (Expérience Series 4)—and will improvise with percussionist Julian Sartorius on Sunday (Nocturne Series 5).
For PAN M 360, Alain Brunet met with him at his Montreal hotel between rehearsal sessions. Here is that rather substantial conversation.
PAN M 360: You haven’t been to North America in a long time. Why is that?
Matthew Herbert: Yes. There was a long period when I tried to stop flying, for environmental reasons. So, for any shows I can do in Europe, I travel by train, car, or other means. I avoid flying, that’s true, but I’ve also had some bad experiences on this continent—not in Canada but in the United States, because of the extremely difficult financial conditions for artists. I remember a big show in New York where I had to pay for the posters, the promotion, and the equipment rental. There’s no support for the arts in the United States.
PAN M 360: So that ended up putting you off.
Matthew Herbert: Yes. It doesn’t make you feel welcome—that’s the problem. I know the American audience is great and has nothing to do with it. I’ve played some fantastic shows south of your border, but you just don’t feel welcome there. And then, of course, there’s Trump….
PAN M 360: You’re surely aware of what’s going on between the U.S. and Canada these days… welcome to Europe!
Matthew Herbert: Yeah, haha, welcome to Europe. I’ve always had great experiences in Canada. I have a lot of friends here and fond memories, and I loved playing at Mutek.
PAN M 360: Let’s start by talking about your new project, titled The UK Has More Food Banks Than Branches of McDonald’s. This Wednesday, August 27, at the SAT, you’ll be presenting the world premiere of your new album, which is set to be released this coming October. The first single, “Pasta is Not A Luxury,” is already available online.
Matthew Herbert: Yes, the album is finished. I finished it last week. So I’ll be playing the entire album at MUTEK.
PAN M 360: So can we understand how it was conceived, and of course your commitment in the face of the decline of empathy in our affluent Western societies?
Matthew Herbert: Every day, we’re confronted with a new horror, whether it’s in Gaza, Sudan, or whether it involves Trump, Iran, the climate crisis, or transphobia. The list of horrors is long… When it comes to Western nationalism and ethno-nationalism, we always think “us first”—that is, us first and immigrants second, or other countries and their needs second. That’s how things have evolved over the past 15 years or so. Trump and Musk, for example, have cut off all foreign aid intended for people in need.
PAN M 360: Even before the Trump era, this right-wing populism was simmering in our wealthy countries.
Matthew Herbert: Yeah, of course. To gain political capital, they said, “We’re not going to give money to others; we’re going to keep it for ourselves and our country.” But in reality, we realize that our elites couldn’t care less about the poor in their own country. They don’t care about anyone but themselves. So I think there’s a really interesting angle here with music—an interesting way to approach the political dimension of the issue.
PAN M 360: Very few countries really care about this today. In Canada, it’s also declined substantially—less than elsewhere, but still…
Matthew Herbert: Canada also has more food banks than McDonald’s locations.
PAN M 360: True. Not just for the poor, as we already know, but also for young college students, for example.
Matthew Herbert: In the United Kingdom, it’s the same for foreign students. They have to pay four or five times the price to come here, and yet, once they’re here, they can’t afford to feed themselves. The world has gone completely mad. But that will change because this form of capitalism is unsustainable in the medium term. Such inequalities are unsustainable; the economy no longer works for the vast majority of the population.
PAN M 360: So, all of this will eventually collapse.
Matthew Herbert: Of course, not to mention climate change, which is already causing terrible problems. All of that.
PAN M 360: So, this commitment has always been a part of you.
Matthew Herbert: Always, yes. And I like to explore that commitment through sound, because it allows me to tell these stories and be a part of them.
PAN M 360: What I know about your new album is that you sampled sounds related to food and basic necessities, and that you built your tracks from this collection of sounds.
Matthew Herbert: Yes, the album is a compilation of the 10 most requested items at food banks: personal hygiene products, tampons and sanitary pads, canned fruit, canned meat, cereal, etc. Each track is composed around one of these items; the music is created exclusively from them.
PAN M 360: But how can you compose coherent pieces, even if it makes perfect sense to do so in theory?
Matthew Herbert: What do you mean?
PAN M 360: Well, I’m talking about the final musical forms inspired by this idea. If, for example, you shake a package of pasta to generate sounds, you have to turn it into a piece that holds together!
Matthew Herbert: I think there are lots of different ways. I mean, one of them—I’ll give you the titles—is the titles you can give the pieces. They say things like… For example, one of the pieces is called *People Donating Tins of Soup*. Another one says that the consumption of canned vegetables shouldn’t be excessive in a rich country. Another track is titled “If Men Had Periods, Tampons Would Be Free.” What am I trying to describe? I’m trying to describe a flawed system. So I try to create music that’s a bit mechanical and make sure there’s a malfunction or a glitch along the way, and then we return to normal.On other tracks, I try to create a seductive dance track using this material.
PAN M 360: So it becomes both activism and entertainment.
Matthew Herbert: People say to themselves, “Oh yeah, great track. ” They do some research, try to find it. And they think, “Wait, it’s made from tampons! Why is it made from tampons?” And then they have to figure out the answer for themselves. So for me, it’s about a variety of different approaches, but it’s difficult because it’s instrumental music. And there aren’t any pieces of music composed with toilet paper in the world! So we have nothing to compare it to.
PAN M 360: Okay. If we try to get a little more specific about the recording process, what equipment did you use? How did you go about it?
Matthew Herbert: Here’s how I do it: I ask my assistant to collect samples, create a multitude of them, gather all kinds of objects, sample them, and cut them up so I can play them. Then I simply push the sounds to their extremes. So I use granular synthesis a lot, and I stretch the sound—I slow it down a lot or speed it up.
And that’s when something starts to take shape. I can then get something I like, and it might have a little bass note, like a “woo,” or something like that. So I process the result with the equalizer, then record it back into the computer. I can then readjust the EQ and add more bass. Once I have a sound I like, I sample it again, and so on. Sometimes, the sounds you hear may turn out to be the 30th generation of the original recorded sound.
PAN M 360: Is it a long process?
Matthew Herbert: Yes. It took about a year; it’s very conceptually intense. You must never lose sight of this question: what’s the story you want to tell? You have to establish a connection with the sound; you have to create a link to the story—not just make something exciting or fun.
PAN M 360: It’s very difficult to imbue music with meaning, but when you sample very specific objects, you can achieve that.
Matthew Herbert: Yes. So canned fruit, canned vegetables, canned meat, canned fish, canned fruit. Actually, it really is an album of canned goods! But it’s also about figuring out how to make each of these tracks sound a little different from the others.
PAN M 360: So you’ll be on stage alone to present what you’ve created. Will you improvise or add anything else live?
Matthew Herbert: Yes, I also asked them to get me all these objects. So I’ll be doing a bit of live sampling from the tracks. It’s kind of like a DJ set with a few extra elements.
PAN M 360: Yes, you can interpret it differently, as you’ve done before.
Matthew Herbert: Yes. When I was making that kind of music—it was probably the first time I came to your place—I just used a tin can and a microphone to produce sounds. But today, I can’t just settle for doing the same thing anymore, because technology is now better suited to this practice. So I can integrate these sounds into machines, process them, and transform them.
PAN M 360: And what equipment do you use?
Matthew Herbert: I still use the Akai 612, which is the very first sampler Akai ever made, and I always take it with me when I travel. And then I had a new sampler custom-built, called the Herbert. It was designed for me by a company called Fieldtone, a very good British company. So I have two samplers there. I also use Ableton, live sampling, and other tools of that sort. Everything I generate, in fact, goes back into the computer—it’s a recycling process.
PAN M 360: You’ve always used this kind of equipment, but also acoustic and electric instruments. You’ve explored orchestration, as well as jazz, classical music, and contemporary music. How did you evolve in this way, through these different approaches?
Matthew Herbert: I don’t like to repeat myself. So I’m always looking for new ways to tell my stories. And sometimes I want to make really aggressive records, and other times I want to make something softer that you can listen to calmly at home. I simply want to respond a little to the world around us. And when the world seems gentle, we have to remember that it has become harsh. In the West, our way of life is subsidized by other people who are suffering and enduring hardship.
PAN M 360: Two-thirds of the world’s population.
Matthew Herbert: Yes, all our clothes are made in India and China, and all our food comes from all corners of the world. We don’t see how it’s harvested. So we have to respond artistically to this situation.
PAN M 360: And illustrate it through your own filters.
Matthew Herbert: It’s simply a matter of being present, in a way. And of not viewing music as something separate from reality.
PAN M 360: What are you listening to these days?
Matthew Herbert: I don’t listen to music. I stopped several years ago. I work on music every day, from 9 a.m. to 11 p.m. So after that, I’m a little…
PAN M 360: Since you’ve composed songs and even music for large ensembles, you must have learned harmony. What training did you have in that area?
Matthew Herbert: I didn’t really have any formal training; I learned on the job. But I’ve collaborated extensively with lots of people over the years, so I’ve learned something from each of them. For example, the first arrangements of my music for big band were done by my friend Pete Wraight. Whereas for the latest album with a large ensemble, I did most of them myself, though Pete helped me fine-tune everything at the end.
PAN M 360: You’ll also be DJing at Mutek, as part of the Experience 4 series, on Friday, August 28. Do you DJ often?
Matthew Herbert: I still do it, about once a month. I think DJing is a meritocracy. People don’t know what music you’re mixing, but you have a mission: to hook an audience that doesn’t really know what’s being played in front of them. So I think being a successful DJ is a meritocracy. It has to work. And that’s what I love about DJing, because it forces you to immerse yourself in a crowd, in a room full of strangers. You play your music, you meet people, and you try to convince them to dance to your music. You always have to be creative—or curious.
PAN M 360: Curious and lively.
Matthew Herbert: Something like that.
PAN M 360: And also, on Sunday the 30th, during the final night of the Nocturne series, you’ll be performing with percussionist Julian Sartorius.
Matthew Herbert: It’s hard to say for sure without avoiding this cliché, but for me, it’s truly music in its purest form, because it’s really just the two of us creating it on the spot. So it’s free and pure improvisation. All my sounds come from percussion, so in a way it’s a dialogue between Julian and himself, with my input—it’s him as he was 10 seconds before I throw his sounds back at him.
PAN M 360: Have you ever done this with Sartorius?
Matthew Herbert: Yes, we’ve played a few shows. But I have so many projects on the go that every time we do it again, I really have to rack my brain and figure out how I should go about it.
PAN M 360: No worries on our end. Thanks, it was a pleasure!
Matthew Herbert: Yeah, nice meeting you!
