Interviews

Dan Bejar, known for his work with The New Pornographers, Swan Lake, and most notably, Destroyer—is a walking indie rock enigma. You’d go insane trying to derive true universal meaning from his songs, filled with cryptic language, poetic phrasing about mythical beasts, death, and wonder, and a musical backdrop that dramatically shifts from post-punk, indie rock, free jazz, synth punk. He’s the kind of musician who goes through periods of intensity, almost fugue states as he’s writing his albums, and sometimes forgets the intent almost purposefully. His songs stem from a pure love of language.

For his latest, Labyrinthitis, Bejar once again worked with his longtime collaborator, John Collins to create a wonderfully weird and abstract piece of cryptic indie rock. At one point, he thought he was experiencing some sort of sickness, brought on by periods of vertigo and ringing in his ears. He looked up his symptoms and found the word “Labyrinthitis,” which he still admits sounds like a made-up word. 

We spoke with Dan about some of the mysterious sounds and phrases on his latest album, his love of Jim Morrison, his weird relationship with Nick Cave’s music, and references to dark magic. 

 

PAN M 360: Hey Dan. How’s your day so far? 

Dan Bejar: It’s been pretty easy. Went for a stroll in the sun, and bought some bread. How about yours? 

PAN M 360: I just came back from a Nick Cave exhibition opening here in Montreal. 

Dan Bejar: What is that even? What do you go and look at as you stare at the walls?

PAN M 360: It’s basically laid out so every room is a different chapter of his life. His Berlin years or how we started the Bad Seeds and all that and then at the very end, he appeared and did a little media Q&A. 

Dan Bejar: I’d like to be in the kind of the house that he was squatting in with a friend or whatever, where he has a bunk bed and his typewriter setup. There’s some famous picture of him in Berlin, working away on that book and looking pretty gnarly. I think that would be a pretty cool room to recreate.

PAN M 360: Would you ever consider having an exhibition on your trajectory as an artist. A Destroyer exhibit in Canada or something?

Dan Bejar: I don’t think so. I mean, it’d be funny to be approached about such a thing. I think you probably have to buy into your living legend status. Which is understandable if you’re Nick Cave because that’s where he’s at right now. Like there’s a Bob Dylan museum opening in Tulsa or somewhere like that. I think it’s probably a similar vibe. But no one’s knocking on my door asking for copies of my correspondences or anything like that. 

PAN M 360: We can get off of Nick Cave, but one thing he talked about was ego being an absolute killer when you’re so revered. How is that as an accomplished artist yourself?

Dan Bejar: It’s interesting, especially in North America, he’s had this kind of a slow and steady rise to the kind of Godhead figure of English language songwriting. So maybe when it’s a slow and steady rise like that, as opposed to just like a pop version, where you explode onto the scene and are just massive and then you disappear, it makes it seamless and less weird to recreate the different rooms of your life in an institution.

I have like a deeply conflicted relationship with the guy in that he’s written songs that are among my very favourite songs and put out records that I’m really attached to. I don’t really know the stuff between The Good Son and The Boatman’s Call, which are two of my favourite records. I did spend a lot of time listening to Skeleton Tree, which I thought was weird because that’s not a record you really just throw on while you’re doing the dishes.

PAN M 360: Have you seen parallels between his music and yours throughout the years?

Dan Bejar: Maybe but I also have a contentious relationship with him, because I know that he has a really strong work ethic. He has kind of an office space where he goes, and he just punches the clock and shoots, like a nine to five job. And I’ve just never been able to do it. It’s so different from how I operate.

PAN M 360: Yeah I feel you’re more of the guy who has a bunch of phone recordings or voice memos, singing things or phrases you find interesting?

Dan Bejar: Yeah I sing ideas. And usually, my ideas show up with melodies attached and that’s why I think they’re singable. It’s like it’s God’s clue that they’re ideas with melodies. And, I’ll string them together because certain ones will talk to others really well. Sometimes it will be chronological, I’ll do a bunch in a row and that will be the song. It wasn’t always like that, though. I used to like have a book that I’d write in and then I’d sit around all day long and strumming the guitar. The chords and melodies would kind of get smushed together at some point. And that was like Destroyer for definitely for the first 10 or 12 years. 

PAN M 360: And I’ve noticed that you have been adding more musical space in your music. I think Kaputt was when I took note of it. But this album really has lots of room for each instrument to breathe and the vocals are sometimes very minimal. Was that a conscious choice?

Dan Bejar: Yeah I think so. Compared to the way I used to write, which was kind of almost like a dare or a trick, like trying and fit all this language into a song. That’s not really the case anymore. That’s why the song “June” was really fun was because I could just lay into that shit and narrate these strange images and strange situations and just treat it as an acting job. 

“June” music video

PAN M 360: You’re talking about the spoken word part in June where you just kind of go crazy?

Dan Bejar: Yeah just being free of song structure once and for all. That was kind of like one of the illuminating and terrifying liberation moments on the record.

PAN M 360: Yeah it’s almost like slam poetry. Definitely the wildest moment on the record. 

Dan Bejar: You know there would have been a time in my life where someone said, ‘This feels like slam poetry to me.’ I would have thrown myself off a cliff. But I don’t know. Where I’m at right now. I’m kind of just fine with that. I went into it the way Jim Morrison would approach it. 

PAN M 360: He’s someone you’re usually trying to channel?

Dan Bejar: I mean as a singer, and as a poet, he speaks to me more than someone like Nick Cave. It seems to be like just a shadow that I can’t help a walk in these days. I think about it all the time. That being said, I think I try and channel a bloated middle-aged version of him … not the young Dionysian version. 

PAN M 360: That’s a little self-deprecating no? 

Dan Bejar: I just understand what I currently am. I’m turning 50 this year so it might be hard for me to get into the leather pants right now. 

PAN M 360: We spoke once before, maybe five years ago, and you told me that you want Destroyer songs to feel like a random page in a spy novel. Do you still agree with that statement?

Dan Bejar: That’s funny. I totally 100% agree with that, but I didn’t think I was feeling that five years ago. But I’m pretty consistent these days. I have really just two or three hang-ups and I guess that’s one of them espionage but in a really disoriented way—just like cut up, cut up espionage.

PAN M 360: I Googled “Labyrinthitis” and found that its to do with an inner ear infection and periods of vertigo? Did you experience that?

Dan Bejar: I’m still not really sure what it is. I did have a phase where I guess I had really bad what you call tinnitus symptoms. Like the ringing of the ears, and hearing loss. I wasn’t listening to music because it was painful. I definitely couldn’t be around the loud sound. And it seemed to be accompanied as well with yeah, fucking vertigo man. I mean, the tinnitus … just comes with the territory of exposing yourself to really loud rock music for 30 years. And the vertigo was just a weird new thing. It flared up and it went away within a week or so. But you know, it was one of those moments last year where I was like ‘What the hell’s going on?’ And I came across that word. I kind of lost interest in any kind of self-diagnosis and the more I got into it, I looked at that word as a jumble of letters and it sounded completely made up. 

PAN M 360: I honestly thought it was a made-up word as well. 

Dan Bejar: Right? It looks 100% made-up and if it’s not made up someone made up that definition in the last 10 years. It seems like too much out of some like Italian modernist, short story, or something. I just kept thinking about it. I like the connotations of it, not so much the clinical stuff, but the connotations of like disorientation, vertigo, and nausea. And I like the connotations of just what definitions you can invent for yourself. Like, is it about being addicted to mazes? Maybe the idea of getting lost is a clinical condition.

PAN M 360: Getting lost in a labyrinth. 

Dan Bejar: Yeah or trapped. It also kind of implies a spell or some kind of magic, potentially, like evil, dark magic (laughs). Perhaps even some kind of beast that lurks inside the labyrinth that is your undoing.

PAN M 360: There’s that line in “Tintoretto, It’s for You” ‘Do you remember the mythic beast.’ Is that where that idea came from?

Dan Bejar: I gotta say that the song was finished before I found the word. That’s just kind of how my mind works and I gravitate to certain words. So I’m not surprised it all connects. It’s a weird song, but when I just kind of scan it peripherally, it seems to be like a pretty steady meditation on the Grim Reaper coming to knock on your door, telling you it’s time.

Last summer, the little punky-pop bombshell “Chaise Longue” introduced Wet Leg to half the world.

Before this 3.17 minutes of pure contagious happiness that collected millions of views and listens, nobody had heard of this duo out of nowhere. Well, not quite out of nowhere, since the two main protagonists of Wet Leg come from the Isle of Wight, off the coast of Albion.

If many thought that the success of “Chaise Longue” would be short-lived and that Wet Leg would be just another one-hit-wonder, we have to admit that the duo was quite inspired when creating the twelve tracks of this first album, simply entitled Wet Leg, and unveiled just recently. Buoyed by the resounding success of “Chaise Longue,” Rhian Teasdale and Hester Chambers have seen their little island lives turned upside down, becoming overnight darlings of the music press, with all the hype that comes with it.

A few weeks ago, PAN M 360 managed to catch the two accomplishments while one was on her island and the other was in London. They wanted to do the interview together. Mischievous, mocking, not very talkative but often giggling, Rhian and Hester told us about their homeland, wet legs, the fun they want to continue having while making music, and the weight of success.

PAN M 360: When and how did the Wet Leg adventure begin?

Hester Chambers: In 2018, at the End of The Road festival. Rhian had her solo project RHAIN that wasn’t motivating her too much anymore, and she was about to give up. But for a few festival dates she had already agreed to do, she asked me to play guitar with her. To our surprise, things were going pretty well between us and it was after that show at the End of The Road that we seriously talked about forming a band. We also more or less participated in a few projects together but it wasn’t our project. You know, sometimes you have good intentions and decide to form a new project but then everyone is too busy with other things or it’s hard to find a place where everyone can rehearse and blah blah blah, but we stuck with it!

Rhian Teasdale: Yeah, it’s pretty crazy that we managed to do it (shy laugh)

PAN M 360: How did you meet? You knew each other for a while I guess.

Rhian Teasdale: Yeah, we’ve known each other for a while. We met when we were in college, but we never really thought about starting a band together until about a decade ago.

PAN M 360: Basically, Wet Leg was more of a project that you started with the sole intention of having fun without complicating your life. But with all your success and all that it implies, is it still the case?

Rhian Teasdale: Yes, but we’re really busy, we work a lot Hester and I. It’s pretty crazy. We never thought about doing this very seriously, we started Wet Leg just for the fun of making music together, really. A few months ago, I was telling Hester that I had to go to work on our project after the vacation, and it felt weird to call it “work.”

Hester Chambers: Oh yes, so much! For a long time it was just a hobby for us. It was after we got signed by Domino’s that we started calling it “work”… It felt weird to say that. Because we never thought of it as a job, we were just hanging
out.

PAN M 360: Music and work are not words that go together very well, are they?

Rhian Teasdale: I think calling it work, a job or a career is weird. It feels really strange to call it that.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UB3PJwPMHzQ&list=PLgKiYLL7gGMGHPJHuk-ap88PBDqVcy8nO&index=4

PAN M 360: What does Wet Leg mean, is it a typical Isle of Wight expression?

Hester Chambers: Yes, it’s a local epithet to describe those who are not from the Isle of Wight. People who have crossed the Solent (the inlet that separates the Isle of Wight from England) to get to the island are said to have wet legs when they get off the boat. We’re surrounded by water so no matter where you go on the island, you’ll often get your feet wet.

Rhian Teasdale: We thought about naming the band Wet Egg, but we thought Leg would be more relatable, more understood by most people.

PAN M 360: You were both born and raised on the island?

Hester Chambers: No, we weren’t born on the island, but we’ve spent a lot of our lives there since we were little.

PAN M 360: There are several well-known musicians from the Isle of Wight, for example, The Bees, Get Shakes, Mark King from Level 42/Re-Flex, Dick Taylor from Pretty Things (and briefly from the Rolling Stones), David Steele from English Beat/Fine Young Cannibals, the drummer from Hanoi Rocks, and many others. Can we say that there is a pretty dynamic music scene on the island?

Hester Chambers: We love The Bees! Yes, it’s a really creative place. There are so many bands and artists that come from there. There’s always a show somewhere although there aren’t really any cool venues. There’s only one really (chuckles). We’ve been playing here and there on the island since we were 17 or 18. In fact, I would say we’ve spent a lot of our time playing all over the island.

PAN M 360: I imagine there are fewer distractions than in London for example; you have quite a bit of time to rehearse and perform. And then there is always the famous Isle of Wight Festival…

Hester Chambers: Yes, but it’s quite different now. It’s nothing like it was in the ’70s. When we were younger, it was really something to look forward to at the beginning of the summer. Just running around and seeing really cool bands… We’re really lucky to have been able to experience that. And then there was the Bestival too.

Rhian Teasdale: The Isle of Wight Festival is at the beginning of the summer and Bestival is at the end. It was really good but it’s no longer held on the island (the event was relocated to Dorset in 2017 and even went as far as Toronto with two editions in 2015 and 2016). It was much better, it was smaller than the Isle of Wight Festival.

PAN M 360 : You recorded Wet Leg in April 2021 but the album was only released on April 8, a year later. Why did you wait so long, especially after the enormous success of “Chaise Longue.” This song was still released last June.

Hester Chambers : We didn’t have much to do during the pandemic, so we were trying to be productive, to maximize our time. And it was quite a long process afterward. We didn’t finish everything last spring, there was the mix that took some time. And we didn’t really know how things were going to turn out after “Chaise Longue.”

PAN M 360 : Tell us about this chaise lounge. Is that what you call those beach or pool chairs?

Rhian Teasdale: I know in French it’s like beach chairs, but in English, a chaise longue is what you call a récamier.

PAN M 360 : How was this song born?

Hester Chambers: We were hanging out in a living room and Joshua (Omead Mobaraki, one of the three musicians in the band) put out a nice beat from his machines, we added a bass line, it was just a little stupid jam and during that time Rhian was sitting on a chaise longue.”

Rhian Teasdale: It was quite an accidental jam and it was never meant to go any further than that.

PAN M 360: A happy accident!

Hester Chambers and Rhian Teasdale : Yes, yes, exactly!

PAN M 360: You have accumulated more than 11 million views on Youtube with your six clips (3.9 million only for Chaise Longue) and the number of streams is close to 50 million…Does all this overtake you a little bit, do you feel a certain pressure?

Rhian Teasdale: Hmm… That’s a little too much, isn’t it? Personally, I try not to think about it too much and focus my energy on the good things people tell us. I don’t know… um… but it’s true that there’s a lot of hype (laughs).

PAN M 360: Do you feel that there is a strong expectation from the public, that they expect you to live up to all this hype?

Rhian Teasdale : We’ll see, we do what we have to do and que sera sera !

Under the theme “La grande vague: Alma et La Mer”, the Orchestre Métropolitain presents on Friday evening (Maison symphonique, 7:30 PM) a work by the Italian composer Paola Prestini, whom PAN M 360 is dedicated to introducing. Conducted by Kensho Watanabe, the OM will perform an early work by Prestini, « Barcarola », followed by Alma Mahler’s « Seven Lieder » and « La Mer, three symphonic sketches » by Claude Debussy.

Considered one of the compositional leaders of her generation on the global new music scene, Paola Prestini is also a leading activist and organizer.  

A graduate of the prestigious Juilliard School of Music, she studied with Samuel Adler, Robert Beaser and Sir Peter Maxwell Davies. Most recently, she was named one of Musical America’s “30 Innovators.  

Throughout her career, Paola Prestini has traversed musical genres and eras of repertoire. Open to multidisciplinarity, she has collaborated with writers, filmmakers, and scientists in the context of world-class multimedia works.

She was the first woman to participate in Minnesota Opera’s New Works Initiative with Edward Tulane. Her upcoming chamber opera Sensorium Ex, commissioned by Atlanta Opera and Beth Morrison Projects for the Prototype Festival, explores the intersection of artificial intelligence and disability, using non-verbal or atypical speech patterns to explore the fundamental questions of what it means to have a voice, and what it means to be fully and essentially human. 

As part of her commitment to equity for the next generation of artists, she created the Hildegard Commission for emerging female, transgender, and non-binary composers, as well as the Blueprint Fellowship for emerging composers and female mentors at The Juilliard School.

A native of Italy, she is the co-founder and artistic director of the Brooklyn-based arts institution and incubator National Sawdust. 

As for the work on the program, here’s her own explanation from the program for Friday night’s 7:30 p.m. performance at the Symphony House

“The work, which lasts about fifteen minutes, unfolds like a wave in the rhythmic sway of the Venetian barcarole form. It is inspired by the poem Barcarole, by Pablo Neruda, who compares desire to the ocean and its storms. The poem makes the sounds of the wind and the foghorn sound like a beating heart, and the impression is spectral and sensual. The poem plays with structural shifts, and then, having reached the highest peak of desire, it concludes with a simple heartbeat.”

And since the appetizer is going well, let’s talk directly to Paola Prestini! 

PAN M 360 : What have you mainly developed sonically, as a contemporary composer?

PAOLA PRESTINI :  I’ve developed a strong love of multimedia creation which extends from operatic works, to works that have blurred boundaries and helped create dialogue among often unrelated fields. From a cantata that fused the Hubble Telescope images with VR, to a music documentary that explored the history of the Colorado River with a conservationist, to my current work at the intersection of opera, community practice and disability activism, all my work is an iniquiry for me into worlds I yearn to discover and learn from.

PAN M 360 : What is your relation with the different periods of classical music since ancient music? 

PAOLA PRESTINI :   I love renaissance music and medieval chants, I actually taught 16th century counterpoint at Juilliard while doing my Masters, so often this somehow appears in the direct nature of my vocal writing, I believe.

PAN M 360 : Some people tend to think there is an interesting link betwwen ancient/Renaissance/baroque music and contemporary music… are you one of them? If yes, how would you elaborate on this observation?

PAOLA PRESTINI :  I think this can be true especially as operatic work today is told more in chamber music settings, often in site specific settings. As far as the vocal writing itself, it’s a hard assessment because contemporary styles are so vast today. In my own music I see the influence because I PANstudied ancient/renaissance music deeply. So the connections in lyricism, counterpoint, and clarity are there. I also think there’s a connection in neume notation and design to score notation now. It’s a fascinating connection to continue examining…

PAN M 360 :  Were some composers a crucial influence on your work – if this question is relevant for you?

PAOLA PRESTINI : It is relevant! I’m passionate of  the music and writings of John Cage: his Sonatas and Interludes and musings on Silence.  The music of Palestrina and Victoria are essential, and the music of Crumb, Meredith Monk, John Zorn, and composers who are my contemporaries, like Tanya Tagaq…and folk music of Italy and Mexico from the past and present has played a huge role in my musical diet.

PAN M 360 : How do you deal with sacred music and how do you inject it in your actual vocal work?

PAOLA PRESTINI : I recently wrote for an extraordinary group from Leipzig called Sjaella and I would say that their background in sacred music and facility with complex lines, and their special blend when their voices come together was a huge inspiration in the works I wrote for them. From a new work called Tryptich of our Time to a womens view on brotherhood called Fratres after Palestrinas Fratres Ego enim accepi, sacred music provides a base I love to extrapolate from.

PAN M 360 : Barcarolla has been composed in the 90’s, when you were emerging as a composer. Can you explain the inspiration of this piece, the way it has been designed, and what remains in your craft from this period of sonic creation? What do you expect from Orchestre Métropolitain, maestro Watanabe and other participants?

PAOLA PRESTINI :  I’m so excited to work with the Orchestre Metropolitain and Maeastro Watanabe to shape this work. When you’re a student it can be hard to ask questions because often you’re afraid of what you don’t know. So in shaping the work, Maestro and I have already asked questions on dynamics, articulation, and structural pacing that I think will help the arc of the piece in a clearer way. As for what I’ve taken with me, I still hear the dense harmnonies punctuated by dissonance, the melodic clarity, the passion, and to this day I am moved daily by poetry. The sounds in the poem influenced the way I wanted to convey color while painting the sounds of an ocean, and though my language has evolved, there is a clarity in intention to this piece that makes it still relevant in my catalogue of work.

PAN M 360 : How would you tell us the way your approach has changed since?

PAOLA PRESTINI :  I would say that my deepened sense of rhythm, structure and overall facility with technology is a direction that has influenced my work. I also have had more opportunities to write for the voice, so it’s exciting to return to this form which is so seminal for all composers.

PAN M 360 : Over the years, what are for you the main steps of your creative work ?

PAOLA PRESTINI : I tend to love coming up with a theme and creating sketches of work that help me explore: a type of R&D process of you will! During this time I like to work with musicians to stretch my knowledge and play so that that creative exchange shows up in the work. I’m definitely a collaborator and feel that my music and work is deepened in collaborative exchange. 

PAN M 360 : Living in Brooklyn,  you are co-founder and artistic director of the Brooklyn-based arts institution and incubator National Sawdust.  Are you still involved with this organisation? Wha activism means for you?

PAOLA PRESTINI :  I’m the cofounder and artistic director at National Sawdust, so I’m involved at a macro level of planning and artistic structure. I also love to be involved in the mentoring programs I’ve started as this type of work is my kind of activism. We focus on women and non-binary artists in commission based programs that mean the world to me. But the space is run by an amazing team of commuted administrators. I feel lucky to have helped create a space for new music in my hometown.

PAN M 360 : What about your Italian identity in New York?  You are often presented as an Italian American, so?

PAOLA PRESTINI :  I was born in Italy and my Italian identity means a lot to me. From the culture to language to family to food! I recently came back from a stay in Rome as a resident at the American Academy of Rome and it was an incredible experience. To be able to live in Rome and be influenced by the lifestyle and people was a great gift and makes me even more grateful for my heritage. But like all Americans, I am a mix of many cultures. My time on the Arizona/Mexico border also influenced me greatly, as has the twenty+ years I’ve been in the city. It’s all part of me. It helps me see more clearly.

PHOTO credit :  Caroline Tompkins.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pzRorHIhwTQ

The second floor of Studio TD, the new name given to L’Astral for obvious sponsorship reasons, has been transformed into an atypical museum: under the title “Stranger Than Kindness,” an exhibition devoted to Nick Cave will be presented there as of Friday, April 8.

Originally for the Black Diamond, the modern extension of the Royal Danish Library in Copenhagen, this exhibition was imagined by curator Christina Back with Nick Cave as co-curator and co-designer. The exhibition features hundreds of objects accumulated or created over six decades. This is a unique foray into the creative world of Nick Cave, this atypical exhibition. Beyond the evocations of the famous artist, we look at what shapes an existence and what builds a human being.

Never before has Montreal experienced such an immersion in the world of the Australian writer and avant-garde rocker, one of the most brilliant of the current era. Since Montrealer Victor Shiffman, who produced the famous Leonard Cohen exhibition, is the producer of this exhibition, Montreal is honored to host the event, which was preceded by a pair of memorable concerts in Salle Wilfrid-Pelletier at Place des Arts last weekend, orchestrated by Warren Ellis and Nick Cave, joined by three backup singers and a multi-instrumentalist.

The aesthetics of Carnage, a record led by Cave and Ellis as a duo, dominated a repertoire that consisted mostly of this 2021 recording and also of Bad Seeds songs written over the past decade under the musical direction of the same Warren Ellis, without whom Nick Cave would not be what he musically is today.

Thus, several Montreal journalists from institutional and independent media (Radio-Canada, CBC, The Gazette, La Presse, PAN M 360, Sors-Tu, etc.) were given a 49-minute and 49-second conversation with Nick Cave, at the heart of the exhibition dedicated to him. Here are most of the quotes, adapted by PAN M 360.

Photo credits: Jérôme Bertrand




Arrival of Nick Cave in this room illustrating the artist’s office, the photographers do their job:

“What are you doing in my office? Oh, well, take the pictures. Hello everyone, I’m Nick Cave. Hello! And yes, this was our last show of the tour so please excuse me if I seem a little distracted or exhausted… It’s just because I am. So, what do you want to know? Is wearing masks an individual choice or a rule? A rule? It’s a little weird… but I don’t know how it works here.”

On Warren Ellis’ keyboard at the concert:

“I think it’s a $300 synthesizer that Warren found that has a really beautiful sound, an emotional sound, instantly melancholy, but also uplifting. So it’s very hard to get rid of!”

Possible correlation between the repertoire of the Montreal concert and this exhibition, a retrospective repertoire of the last decade and the retrospective of a lifetime:

“I don’t know… For an artist who has made 20 albums or written 250 songs, or whatever, most of the songs were ones we’ve played over the last few years. That’s unusual, I think. What we tried to do was to put on a show that focused on work that was close to today. And so it’s pretty much the last three or four albums.

“But there’s also something that parallels this show, because it’s kind of strange for me to walk through this show, I think it very clearly shows the life of a very self absorbed, creative person who had some kind of violent break in her life or even a series of violent breaks. And this piece that we’re in now is the end of something.

“I didn’t realize, even before I walked through it, that this room was representative of a kind of self-absorption, artistic self-absorption without paying attention to anything else.

“And then you walk through this door behind me, and everything changes, and I think I live on the other side of this door. And sitting here now, it’s, it’s like, there’s a strange sense of disconnection towards that. I think a lot of people, a lot of fans love this period. They like all these things, they like my older music, the older forms of it, the associations of the past, the old Bad Seeds musicians. All that kind of stuff, this show represents that too. But there’s something that happens, beyond my control, when you walk through that door. And it requires me to make a different form of music. And I’m personally very proud that we have continued to follow the truth of things, wherever it may lead. And I think this show is a great reminder that the music is just getting quieter and more thoughtful.”




On the concept and intent of all this work of collecting objects that became an archival project:

“I must have had an idea at the time… Like these things laid out in this room in Berlin, stuff that I obviously valued, like these little books that I made and kept because I just thought they were beautiful. But mostly, it’s piles and piles of junk that Christina (curator of the show) had to go through, and, and radically sort through to find the right ones. So it’s not like I had much to complain about Susie, my wife kept everything. She quietly pulled all my stuff out and put it in storage. So there were storage containers that I wasn’t even really aware of, my wife was more interested in conservation than I was. So these things are from the last 25 years, but these little things in the Berlin room are just little things.

How Nick Cave feels about the physical surroundings of this exhibition dedicated to him:

“There’s a certain sense of detachment, it’s kind of like a museum. But at the same time, there’s been a lot of work done in this room, and in the last few days I’ve been adding new work. And there’s new stuff that I had in my pockets, there’s a Tom Waits letter on my bed that I got a few weeks ago on tour. So this piece feels like a piece that can keep changing as the show goes on. From city to city it can grow, this room that we are in can grow. Because I’ve done more things since then, ceramics for example. Yeah, I mean,And I hope that the last hallway, the gratitude hallway, can grow and be different than it was in Copenhagen (the first city where the exhibition was held.”

On the marked presence of Leonard Cohen in the exhibition, on the impact of the Montreal artist in Nick Cave:

“When I was about 14, in Australia, in this little country town where I grew up (Warracknabeal) and had left to go back in the summer for school vacations, I had a friend who was slightly older than me. She invited me to her house, she made me listen to Songs of Love and Hate in this very dark room, with boxes on the windows. And she told me to listen to what is there in a way, throughout this exhibition, through these re-creations of important moments. We don’t make a big deal about it, but that’s why Leonard Cohen is there on the turntable in the room.”

“I was a weird kid growing up in a country town in Australia, I felt like I didn’t fit in, I didn’t understand the same things as the people in this small country town. Then I heard Avalanche, the first song on this album. It was a seismic shift for me. Suddenly, I felt like someone understood me. That voice became the voice of a friend. That followed me for the rest of my career. You put Leonard Cohen more than others on a guitar neck, there was always the tone of his voice, there was always that feeling of listening to a wise friend. And yeah, that’s why it was a huge moment for me to listen to that song. And to understand that there was something else that was putting words to my own feelings of angst and anger and love.”

On books observed in the square: Nabokov, Dostoevsky and other writers who inspired his work:

“I must say I was blown away by Crime and Punishment. I had studied this book in school, thanks to a great literature teacher who had encouraged me to take a deep dive into this literary pool. It really changed me, it had a huge influence on this idea of living your life outside of what you’re expected to do. And I mean, Raskolnikov (the main character in Crime and Punishment) did it in his own way. For me, as an Australian, there was this idea of living beyond the expectations of others, who were told to shut the fuck up, keep their heads down and not make a fuss. It was a very inspiring book in that regard.

“And yes, these books are the touchstones for all of us from my generation. Important things to hold on to. And that to me is one of the things about this exhibit, I personally feel that it has a duty to convey that information, even though it may not be appreciated in the same way as it was when I was young. Times are changing and people are looking for something else. As I get older, I see myself as a sort of custodian of these valuable items. Letting these things come that people easily forget. It doesn’t take long for someone to be forgotten. You think, “How can anyone forget Leonard Cohen?” But not long ago I was talking to an 18-year-old about the Sex Pistols and he said, “Who?” It doesn’t take long to forget. And so it’s worth it to hang on to this stuff.

“Are you afraid to get forgotten?” someone asks.

“Personally, I don’t really mind in that regard, because I have my own exhibition.”

On the presence of locks of hair among the objects in the exhibit:

“There are these particular locks of hair that I had found at a flea market in Berlin. There were three of them, they were the same length, and sewn together at the top. So one, two or three women, I could never tell, had their hair cut simultaneously. And it gave me endless ideas about what really happened to these women. You know, the character in the book I wrote in Berlin (And the Ass Saw the Angel) also had these locks of hair, they’re very present in the book. Because real life blends into this particular book. So it’s pretty amazing that I was able to keep that hair. In fact, my wife gave me a little drawstring bag with her own hair that she cut off, so I could take it with me on tour. I’m not sure what that means or what she expected me to do with it. Anyway, it’s in my suitcase. (laughs)”

On the addition of a letter he recently received from Tom Waits:

“Anything that comes along, anything that I find, anything that I have or receive that may be of occasional interest can find its way into the exhibition. In this corridor of gratitude, particular things have massive importance, like this note from Leonard Cohen, for example, received after the death of my son: “I am with you, my brother”. That is an extraordinary thing to receive, so simple! It spoke to me more than anything I was told at the time. So everything in this piece has tremendous significance, a reference to Elvis Presley (my primary influence) or this letter from Tom Waits who I’ve never met – I’m going to do that soon in New York, in the context of a memorial for the late producer Hal Willner.”

On the veracity of reproducing real places, on how he works in those real places:

“Actually, it’s almost identical. I had an office like this, I came to the office, I worked in the office, it was separate from the rest of my life. It became something I couldn’t do anymore, because I felt like I couldn’t do it anymore. The artistic sacrifice, sitting there and working on things, that vague idea of your own creative genius, or whatever it is, all the relationships you have that disintegrate because you’re so focused on your work, and you’re never there. I realized that afterwards, I found out that it wasn’t me anymore. There were other things about my work that I thought were more important. So now I don’t work the same way, I still work every day, from morning to night, but I don’t do it the same way, pathologically absorbed in myself.”

On the motivation for bringing all these objects together in an exhibition:

“I can’t really say. It means something, doesn’t it? It says a lot about someone who had a sense of self-importance, maybe that’s a bit of an exaggeration. I don’t know if it’s a joke or if it’s for real. What do you think? “

On the photo of Monica Lewinsky, hanging in the exhibition :

“It was taken by photographer Polly Borland, who is a very good friend of mine and has taken many pictures of me. She took a picture of Monica Lewinsky and gave it to me, and it was on a wall in my office. I don’t know why it’s here but I really like this picture. There is this look on her face…”

On Nick Cave’s decidedly less dark state of mind, observed at the concert as well as in the press conference:

“You know, there’s a lot to be happy about right now, especially for a touring band. Because at this point, we’ve managed to tour England, parts of Europe and North America without getting COVID. In the beginning we toured in a bubble, whereas more recently we haven’t really followed any protocol, we’ve been adjusting as we go along. It’s pretty amazing, actually. No one is going to cover your tour, it’s a very risky business to go on tour these days, but we think it’s a very special time to be on tour. The audience is learning to be an audience again, there’s a certain sense of danger within the audience, sitting there in a group of people in a pandemic. There’s also a joyful aspect to being able to get on stage and make music. Personally, it makes me much happier these days than I’ve ever been. I just found a way to make it happen.

“This happiness was hard-earned, it’s an earned happiness, maybe a suicide. I think it just speaks to the value of things, getting on stage, playing your music, being surrounded by friends and playing in front of people who have come to make you feel like these are special moments, moments of joy. Generally speaking, that’s how I see it these days. I think as I get older, the thing to do is eliminate unnecessary things. Wherever I am it’s a huge privilege to be on stage and perform. That’s how we feel when, like last weekend, we were able to play very emotional, very personal, very intimate, vulnerable shows. And yeah I love seeing what Warren (Ellis) gives us with these beautiful musicians and singers It’s kind of a legacy, it’s really something.”

On what was also taken out from his home:

“A group of Vikings (laughs) came to my house and took everything away, emptied my drawers, took my books, unhooked my paintings from the walls, rolled up the rugs, and it’s all here (in the exhibit). And so, oddly enough, I’ve been accumulating different books lately. There’s not as much fiction, there are other kinds of books, religious books for example.”

On his interest in the sacred, the mystical, the religious, gospel and sacred music in his music, the religious objects and books in the exhibition, on the tension between belief and unbelief:

“Yes, there is a tension. I think it’s in that tension that the spiritual engine of my work exists, it’s at the heart of that tension. What I particularly like about Christianity is that it leaves a lot of room for doubt. And so I see myself essentially as a religious person, although I have serious doubts about some things. But I think I’ve come to a point where I’ve realized that I’ve spent my entire adult life, and even my childhood, struggling with the idea of the existence of God and other related ideas. Finally, it seems to me that this struggle is the religious experience itself. The idea of whether God exists or whether God existed becomes almost a technicality. The religious impulse has always been there, it is everywhere, it is not an occasional phenomenon. I think it’s just getting stronger and stronger.”

On the self-absorbed artist:

“When you’re young, especially when you’re making art, you assume that art is everything. That’s what it’s all about. And the artist’s life is something exalted, the supreme state. And, in fact, everything else suffers as a result, your relationships with your children, with your wife, with your friends or in your civic involvement. I discovered the hard way that there were other things more important to me than the creative experience.

“That doesn’t mean my life doesn’t explode in all directions through my artwork. Creatively, there’s so much going on right now. But I think when you’re on your deathbed, or something like that, that I wrote The Mercy Seat might not be the most important thing you know. When I sit down with my wife, I don’t tell her, honey I wrote The Mercy Seat (laughs). There’s something else, I think. When you walk through the door behind that desk, there’s something else, and that’s what this exhibition is trying to say too.

“Piece by piece, this exhibition represents a series of ruptures: childhood, being sent to the city to go to school, the Berlin years… these are a series of states of being that collapse and wither, and move on to the next. And it supports the idea that nothing feels very stable but…there’s something behind that office door that feels more stable: my family, my wife, my kids, my friends.”

On the distinction between work and the deeper self:

“Creative work has its own life, and it has its own understanding of where it should go. For me personally, the intention is different. I feel like the intention has to consist of a certain gradation. It is beyond myself, beyond a kind of enlargement of my own self within which resides an enormous potential to make things better and to do good for people. I understand that because I understand it for myself; I understand it from art, music and other creative things. It helps me a lot. And I don’t know how to stop there. I’m trying to get a song done before Sunday, Sunday always seems to come so quickly.”

At first glance, the meeting of Richie Hawtin alias Plastikman and Chilly Gonzales, two Canadian artists of international reputation, was unlikely. The two knew each other by reputation but their creative worlds, one electronic and the other (mostly) instrumental, were not concomitant. However, thanks to Tiga, another world-renowned local player, the meeting took place and was perfectly conclusive. Under the Turbo label, “Consumed In Key” happens to be an authentic synergy between Plastikman and Gonzales, each of their expressions is magnified, revitalized, and becomes a creative boost for these two highly prolific musicians as we know.

PAN M 360 wanted to know more about this collaboration, Richie Hawtin answered our questions generously.

PAN M 360: The encounter between Richie Hawtin / Plastikman and Chilly Gonzales is obviously fruitful. What are your own impressions of the result? 

RICHIE HAWTIN: We are happy and proud of the result. In a way, it was a guarantee, because I think, you know, you put two focused, talented people together who have their own identities. The only thing that could have gotten in the way would have been each other’s egos. And, you know, when Tiga contacted me during the pandemic and told me that Chilly had started working on this idea and had done three mock-ups, I was baffled. How could anyone else think of a project like “Consumed in Key”? What could they add to it? Of course, Chilly is a very well-known and respected musician. But I didn’t know him, I didn’t know anything about him. But since Tiga has been a big supporter of Plastikman since the early days, there had to be something to this collaboration idea. And so I listened to the demos and I still wasn’t convinced, probably because I’m not a true fan of acoustic music.

PAN M 360: We see that the addition of acoustic music in electronic projects is often superficial, without substance. Most of the time, when we see an inclusion of instrumentals from an electronic point of view, it’s often average, because the musicians invited are not at a high level, and also because the electronic musicians don’t know much about acoustic or instrumental music. 

RICHIE HAWTIN: Yes.  So I thought yes, it was interesting and we should do this project, as long as I was able to control the final mix. I felt like Chilly was approaching the album from his own point of view, a very distinct point of view, and I didn’t want to get into a conversation about the pros and cons of the potential impact of this product. So I think one of the best decisions was to leave it like that and allow Chilly to approach this work as he interprets it, and let him go with it. And that’s what we did. And so I think the collaboration was Chilly’s collaboration with my ghost, our dialogue was what we were doing musically. So he got to know me by composing his first pieces. When he sent them to me, I did the same on my side, I had to think about how to integrate his work.  And it was a very long journey for me, there were, I think, almost a hundred versions of the final.

PAN M 360: We understand that Tiga was a crucial link between you and Chilly Gonzales.

RICHIE HAWTIN: We were both friends of Tiga. Chilly had mentioned to him that he had composed something and that I might be receptive to it. Tiga has a great sense of timing and he became Chilly’s translator of my creative thoughts, knowing that this collaboration was possible and could take us further. He was sort of the executive producer of this project, in the true sense of the word because he was really involved in the exchange between Chilly and myself.

PAN M 360: Can you explain the working method?

RICHIE HAWTIN: Sure. Pieces would come to me via Tiga, as Chilly finished each track. I would send some information back to Tiga, which he would pass on to Chilly. And we would get to a point where Chili’s work was done, until he was completely satisfied with what he had accomplished. Methodically, I then began to go through the recording from beginning to end, because you have to understand that this album is to be consumed from beginning to end, in an order fairly close to the first working version. As I became more involved in this project, I became more sensitive to understanding the pieces Chilly composed. And the pieces started to become more specific, more similar to each other. For a while I thought, okay, maybe in the end I should go back now and have a discussion with Chilly. And finally, no. It was a dance that we had together from a distance, a kind of artistic romance between two approaches.  The beauty of it, actually, is the intimacy of a pianist alone in his studio and me alone with this piano music in my studio. It becomes something really unique. This way of doing things allowed us to each have our creative moments and our moments of asserting our egos, so that our work would be in sync at the end.

PAN M 360: There was a back and forth, so in the context of a virtual relationship.

RICHIE HAWTIN: It was virtual until the final mix. For months, I didn’t get a single direct phone call from him, all the information went through Tiga. And I only met Chilly in person last December, when we shot the first promotional video and gave our first interview. That’s also what attracted me to this unconventional project, it’s part of its charm. 

PAN M 360: It’s a real challenge to get this mix with piano and electronics right. It can easily slip into the cheap new age, while we have a substantial project at the end of the day. It allows everyone to offer a new facet of their work.

RICHIE HAWTIN: And Chilly might tell you that he heard something in this project that challenged him, because it went against his musical education. We could have talked about it but we didn’t. On my side, I was really looking for a new inspiration, reading biographies of jazz musicians like Miles Davis. Although “Consumed in Key” was not meant to be an electronic jazz album, there was this idea of leaving space between the notes, like in Miles Davis’ music. Chilly felt that too. So I think for him it was a challenge to sit down at the piano, wondering how to negotiate with the silence. Once he sent me his work, I also had to ask myself how to respond to it with this open approach.

PAN M 360: From your own perspective, what have you accomplished? How has it changed your own practice?

RICHIE HAWTIN: I connected to the beauty of an organic flow, and realized how important it is to trust your instincts. You know, the further along you get in your career, the more you use technology and this and that. And the more you do it, the more people know what you’re doing… a noise builds up around you, you can lose track… This work with Chilly has allowed me to be intimate with myself again artistically, hold the mirror very, very, very close to my work and refine it. Of course, one does not change oneself fundamentally, but sometimes new flashes can occur. And that’s what happened. I felt that something really special by trusting my intuition, by accepting to see where it would take me. So after so many years, electronic music continues to surprise, challenge and inspire me. 

PAN M 360: Could this material be transposed on stage in the near future?

RICHIE HAWTIN: I don’t think so. It’s not a creative problem, it’s a scheduling problem, as stupid as that sounds. That said, we’re very, very proud and pleased with how it turned out, and if something else exciting comes out of this collaboration, well, we’ll see where it goes. For now, at least I feel really good. It’s beautiful when I listen to this record, it’s beautiful when I see people hearing it for the first time.

These four virtuosos share the same condition: a career as an orchestral musician, soloist, teacher and chamber musician. The New Orford Quartet is made up of four performers with exceptional backgrounds: Jonathan Crow (violin), Andrew Wan (violin), Sharon Wei (viola) and Brian Manker (cello) invite pianist Stéphane Lemelin, also a chamber musician and teacher, to share a program from the Pro-Musica Concert Society’s Carte Blanche series this Sunday at the Phi Center. On the program: Antonín Dvořák, Jessie Montgomery, Amy Beach.

Brian Manker has more on this at PAN M 360.

PAN M 360: Remind us of the stages of the Orford Quartet’s reorganization, from the old line-up to the new.

BRIAN MANKER: The original Orford quartet had a long career, from 1965 until 1991, when they disbanded. The current quartet, the New Orford, was formed in 2009 at the Orford Arts Centre with the support of the original founding members of the former group. We have been playing together for almost thirteen years now!

PAN M 360: What would you say are the main elements of your identity as a string quartet? What are its orienta- tions? What is your preferred repertoire?

BRIAN MANKER : Our identity is definitely informed by all of our other musical pursuits. For example, we have all played the Beethoven symphonies, the piano concertos, the violin concerto (Jonathan and Andrew even as the soloist), the Triple Concerto, etc. This inevitably informs our understanding of Beethoven’s language in a profound way. The same can be said of Ravel, of Dvorak, of Brahms. Our orientations are towards precision, collectivity, and exploration. We like to perform new works by living composers, with an emphasis on Canada and Quebec alongside the great works from the past.

PAN M 360: The staff of the New Orford Quartet is extremely competent, arguably the best in Quebec for a string small ensemble, virtuosity speaking. In your opinion, what are the main qualities of each member?

BRIAN MANKER : Thank you for your high praise! There are many fine ensembles in Quebec and in Canada, it’s an ho- nour to be included in that conversation. As for the main qualities of the members of the group, that is a good question, it’s not easy to answer but I will try. Jonathan has a precise and penetrating intelligence, he possesses a beautiful and singular voice on the violin that is instantly recognizable, a strong leader. Andrew is a communicator, a mediator, he is an amazing violinist and also a strong leader, a powe- rhouse! Sharon is of course a fantastic violist, calm, strong and quiet in manner but with extraordinary energy. She glues the group together in ways that may not at first be clear to the listener, she makes us all better! As for me, I am the lucky person who gets to go along on amazing musical journeys with these wonderful friends.

PAN M 360 : It takes time and a lot of playing to develop a common sound and thus define the collective identity of a chamber music ensemble. Do you think you play enough to achieve this?

BRIAN MANKER : We certainly are striving for a common sound and collective identity. I will let the listener discover what they feel, but I will say that I think we do. We have played 20-25 concerts a year for over ten years with many thousands of hours of rehearsal to prepare ourselves for these concerts as well as the time spent making recordings together. I feel our sound and our style is unique and consistent, so again, yes, I do feel we achieve this.

PAN M 360: This string quartet is a project carried out in parallel with your activities as musicians for the OSM or the TSO. Is it difficult to manage?

BRIAN MANKER : Absolutely. Scheduling is a constant headache but we have become adept at making time for rehearsals and planning our projects.

PAN M 360: We can imagine that a musician of your level no longer feels competitive with Canadian colleagues. So what do you think are the best string quartets in Canada?

BRIAN MANKER : I honestly don’t think of it as a competition, each musician is on their own unique and individual path. Certainly there are some amazing Canadian groups: the St. Lawrence Quartet, the Rolston Quartet, the Bozzini, the Molinari are all excellent. I’m sure I’m leaving out some other terrific quartets.

PAN M 360 : Let’s talk about Sunday’s program: could you comment on each of the works?

* Antonín Dvořák, String Quartet No. 12 in F Major, Op. 96, known as the “American” Quartet

* Jessie Montgomery, “Strum”
* Amy Beach, Quintet for piano and string quartet, Op.67

BRIAN MANKER : The Dvorak is an old favourite of mine and audiences worldwide. A fresh and honest work. I love it!

Jessie Montgomery’s Strum fuses many elements of American music in to a new language all her own. “Strum” makes reference to the many pizzicato effects, imitating a guitar or banjo. This is an exciting new voice that I think we’ll be hearing more from in the future.

The Amy Beach Quintet is a very romantic work, colourful and melodic. It isn’t heard often enough. Q: Could you tell me a little bit about your guest pianist and why they were chosen?

Stéphane Lemelin is an old friend of the New Orford, we have collaborated with him many times and always enjoy our time together in rehearsal and on stage.

PAN M 360 : What are the New Orford Quartet’s upcoming projects? Concerts? Recordings?

BRIAN MANKER : We have more concerts planned in May and June, Next year’s calendar is filling out nicely given the challenges faced by concert presenters during this difficult time. No recordings on the horizon but one never knows! What would you like to hear?

Ces quatre virtuoses partagent la même condition : mener une carrière de musicien d’orchestre, de soliste, de professeur et de chambriste. Le Nouveau Quatuor Orford est constitué de quatre interprètes aux parcours exceptionnels : Jonathan Crow (violon), Andrew Wan (violon), Sharon Wei (alto) et Brian Manker (violoncelle) invitent ce dimanche le pianiste Stéphane Lemelin, également chambriste et enseignant, à partager un programme de la série Carte Blanche de la société de concerts Pro-Musica, ce dimanche au Centre Phi. Au programme : Antonín Dvořák, Jessie Montgomery, Amy Beach.

Brian Manker en dit plus long à Pan M 360.

PAN M 360 : Rappelez-nous les étapes de la refonte du Quatuor Orford. L’ancienne formation et la nouvelle.

BRIAN MANKER : Le quatuor Orford original a connu une longue carrière, de 1965 à 1991, date à laquelle il s’est dissous. La formation actuelle, le Nouveau Quatuor Orford, a été formé en 2009 au Centre d’arts Orford avec le soutien de ses membres fondateurs. Nous jouons ensemble depuis presque treize ans maintenant !

PAN M 360 : Quels sont d’après vous les principaux éléments de votre identité en tant que quatuor à cordes? Quelles en sont les orientations? Quel répertoire privilégiez-vous?

BRIAN MANKER : Notre identité est clairement influencée par toutes nos autres activités musicales. Par exemple, nous avons tous joué les symphonies de Beethoven, les concertos pour piano, le concerto pour violon (Jonathan et Andrew en tant que solistes), le Triple Concerto, etc. Cela nourrit forcément notre compréhension profonde du langage de Beethoven, on peut en dire autant de Ravel, de Dvorak, de Brahms. Nos orientations sont tournées vers la précision, la collectivité et l’exploration. Nous aimons aussi interpréter de nouvelles œuvres de compositeurs vivants, soit en mettant l’accent sur le Canada et le Québec à côté des grandes œuvres du passé.

PAN M 360 : Le personnel du Nouveau Quatuor Orford est extrêmement compétent, on peut dire que cette somme de virtuosité est la plus élevée au Québec pour un quatuor. Quelles sont selon vous les principales qualités de chacun?

BRIAN MANKER : Merci pour vos éloges! Il y a beaucoup de beaux ensembles au Québec et au Canada, c’est un honneur d’être inclus dans cette conversation. Quant aux principales qualités des membres du groupe, c’est une bonne question, ce n’est pas facile de répondre mais je vais essayer. Jonathan est un leader fort, il a une intelligence précise et pénétrante, il possède une belle et singulière voix au violon, immédiatement reconnaissable. Il est un leader fort. Andrew est un communicateur, un médiateur, c’est un violoniste incroyable et aussi un leader, une vraie force de la nature! Sharon est une altiste fantastique, forte tranquille dans ses manières mais avec une énergie extraordinaire. Elle colle le groupe d’une manière qui peut ne pas être apparente au premier abord pour l’auditeur, mais elle nous rend tous meilleurs ! Quant à moi, je suis la personne chanceuse qui peut faire de merveilleux voyages musicaux avec ces merveilleux amis.

PAN M 360 : Pour arriver à circonscrire un son commun et ainsi définir l’identité collective d’un ensemble de musique de chambre, ça prend du temps et beaucoup de concerts. Croyez-vous jouer suffisamment pour y parvenir?

BRIAN MANKER : Je laisse l’auditeur découvrir ce qu’il ressent, mais je dirais que oui. Nous nous efforçons certainement d’avoir une identité sonore et collective commune. Nous avons donné 20 à 25 concerts par an pendant plus de dix ans avec plusieurs milliers d’heures de répétition pour nous préparer à ces programmes, sans compter tout ce temps passé à enregistrer ensemble. Je pense que notre son et notre style sont uniques et cohérents. Alors encore oui, je pense que nous y parvenons.

PAN M 360 : Ce quatuor à cordes est un projet mené en parallèle à vos activités en tant que musiciens pour l’OSM ou le TSO. Est-ce difficile à gérer ?

BRIAN MANKER : Absolument. La planification est un casse-tête constant, mais nous sommes devenus habiles à réserver du temps pour les répétitions et à planifier nos projets.

PAN M 360 : : On imagine qu’un musicien de votre niveau ne se sent plus en concurrence avec les collègues canadiens. Alors quels sont selon vous les meilleurs quatuors à cordes au Canada?

BRIAN MANKER : Honnêtement, je ne considère pas cela comme une compétition, chaque musicien est sur son propre chemin unique et individuel. Il y a certainement des groupes canadiens incroyables : le St. Lawrence Quartet, le Rolston Quartet, le Bozzini ou le Molinari sont tous excellents. Je suis sûr d’oublier d’autres quatuors formidables.

PAN M 360 : Parlons du programme de dimanche : pourriez-vous commenter chacune des œuvres?

BRIAN MANKER : Antonín Dvořák, Quatuor à cordes n° 12 en fa Majeur op. 96, dit « Américain »  : Le Dvořák est un de nos vieux favoris et aussi parmi les préférés du public dans le monde entier. Un travail encore frais et honnête. Je l’aime !

Jessie Montgomery, Strum : Cette pièce fusionne de nombreux éléments de la musique américaine dans une nouvelle langue qui lui est propre. Strum fait référence aux nombreux effets de pizzicato, imitant une guitare ou un banjo. C’est une nouvelle voix passionnante dont je pense que nous entendrons davantage à l’avenir.

Amy Beach, Quintette pour piano et quatuor à cordes, op.67 : C’est une œuvre très romantique, colorée et mélodique. On ne l’entend pas assez souvent.

PAN M 360 : Pourriez-vous parler brièvement de votre pianiste invité, et ce qui en justifie le choix?

BRIAN MANKER : Stéphane Lemelin est un vieil ami du Nouveau Quatuor Orford, nous avons collaboré avec lui à plusieurs reprises et apprécions toujours notre temps ensemble en répétition et sur scène.

PAN M 360 : Quels sont les projets à venir du Nouveau Quatuor Orford ? Concerts? Enregistrements?

BRIAN MANKER : Nous avons des concerts prévus en mai et juin, le calendrier de l’année prochaine se remplit bien, considérant tous les défis auxquels les diffuseurs de concerts sont confrontés avec, particulièrement pendant cette période difficile. Pas d’enregistrements à l’horizon mais on ne sait jamais ! Qu’aimeriez-vous entendre ?

TO BUY YOUR TICKETS FOR THE CONCERT AT CENTRE PHI, SUNDAY 3PM , IT’S HERE

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Here they are again, we see them surfing on a wave of the 80’s, exactly four decades after the release of the album “Rhythm of Youth” and its worldwide megahit “Safety Dance”. And now our Men Without Hats are back on duty after a 10-year hiatus in terms of original material: on the Sonic Envy label, “Again Pt.2 follows Again Pt.1”, a mini-album of covers (Lou Reed, David Bowie, The Tragically Hip, etc.) in the distinct manner of the Doroschuk brothers and their accomplices.

An album with a premonitory title, “Love in the Age of War”, was launched in 2012 by the group headed by brothers with Ukrainian origins on their father’s side and who want to remain discreet about the conflict raging on the other side of the Atlantic. So what’s up? Although his most recent texts from “Again pt. 2” deal with global issues, but also with the meaning of existence and creative life. Frontman and songwriter Ivan Doroschuk prefers to talk about music and this is what PAN M 360 will do at his convenience.

In 2021, the EP Again Pt.1 presented the covers recorded in the style of Men Without Hats. Led by brothers Ivan and Colin Doruschuk, the band has never ceased to exist and continues to enjoy themselves alongside guitarist Sho Murray – since 2016.

Sticking to their recipe of spices and herbs digital/analog technology (this including an authentic Prophet 5), Men Without Hats would find their synthpop coolness. In fact, the process has been underway for the past decade during which the band has been touring extensively, but a new creative breeze is indeed confirming this return to the saddle.

PAN M 360: Hello Ivan, I’ll join you in Victoria, where you have been living for a long time, right?

IVAN DOROSCHUK: Yes, it’s been about 20 years.

PAN M 360: The band hadn’t done any original songs for about ten years

IVAN DOROSCHUK: Indeed.

PAN M 360: What have you done in the last ten years?

IVAN DOROSCHUK: We’ve been touring. I’ve been to more regions and countries with this new incarnation of Men Without Hats than when we were touring mostly in North America. In the last few years we’ve toured Scandinavia, South Africa, Australia, Peru and other places we’ve never been before.

PAN M 360: It was apropos, because synthwave has a big following in Europe.

IVAN DOROSCHUK: Yes, in Scandinavia and especially in Germany. Half of our dates are German when we do a European tour. In France, however, we haven’t been invited to play there yet. We are aware of the French interest in synth pop, we have been trying to perform in France for a while… We hope it will happen soon!

PAN M 360: So for the last ten years, you’ve been able to make a living from touring?

IVAN DOROSCHUK: Well… Nobody does this tour to make a living. It’s mainly for fun. I live from my previous achievements, actually, the royalties from the Hats and other income from our past successes. Now there is no pressure, it’s not about money but about the passion for music. We don’t feel like we’re competing like we used to. Back then, being in a band was a bit like being on a field hockey team. There was a limited number of spots on the charts, radio spots, clubs in the cities and pages in the newspapers. So it was a competition for the young artists that we were.

PAN M 360: Now that you are independent of fortune, it is the passion to make music.

IVAN DOROSCHUK: Yes! We make music for fun in the context of a changing industry. It’s hard to keep up with it all.

PAN M 360: The title of your previous album, Love in the Age of War, was premonitory, especially since you have Ukrainian origins.

IVAN DOROSCHUK: Yes, but there is always war where there have been humans, that’s not new. So we contribute to peace as we can, and this is my contribution.

PAN M 360: As far as lyrics are concerned, the new album is no different from the previous ones: you deal with global, universal subjects. Rather than exploring intimacy, you seem to prefer to question the fate of the world. What do you think ?

IVAN DOROSCHUK: Yes. The themes of the environment, ecology, human rights and freedom are addressed. Today, we are still conveying this same message, these are universal themes that have always been those of Men Without Hats.

PAN M 360: The intimate world is not a territory of exploration, as it has never been.

IVAN DOROSCHUK: No no. I don’t sing about my ex-girlfriends or my private stories.

PAN M 360: Let’s talk about the sound of this new album.

IVAN DOROSCHUK: Many people tell me that this new album is the spiritual descendant of Pop Goes the World (1987), while Love in the Age of War was more electro-pop and techno like “Rhythm of Youth” was in 1982. “Again Pt. 2” is more orchestrated, more instrumentation is more considerable.

PAN M 360: But isn’t the very identity of Men Without Hats more synthetic?

IVAN DOROSCHUK: Absolutely. We took a slight detour with Sideways (1991), but even today we remain faithful to our electronic roots.

PAN M 360: We have to, because the band has become a synthpop classic.

IVAN DOROSCHUK: Yes, and I think we were lucky, because today I open the radio and I hear so-called current pop and … completely flooded with typical 80s sounds. Today’s production is often comparable to the 80’s, the sampling, the big drums, etc.

PAN M 360: Tell us about the current line-up.

IVAN DOROSCHUK: Besides myself, there is my brother Colin, his daughter Sahara (keyboards, vocals), and Sho Murray, guitarist and co-producer. We are joined on stage by drummer Adrian Waite. We are all on the West Coast. Colin and I are on Vancouver Island (Victoria) and Sho and Adrian live in Vancouver. I’ve lived in Victoria on the waterfront for about 20 years as I said, I have a 19 year old son, I was a stay-at-home dad for 10 years, mom was back at university. That made it easy for me because the area is really magical. Like a huge park. I live on the beach, I couldn’t imagine a better playground. My parents had moved there before me, for the nature and the climate. Only my brother Stephan stayed in Montreal.

PAN M 360: What motivated you to make a new album, ten years after the previous one?

IVAN DOROSCHUK: It was mainly our fans that pushed us to do it. We didn’t make so many albums since the beginning. But our fans were writing to us and asking us when the new album would come out. So I started to make new songs three or four years ago. I wanted to make a solo album, voice and piano, with covers of my repertoire, covers of songs that have marked me. When we redid the Tragically Hip song “Blow at High Dough”, I was curious to see how it would sound with the full band. When I recorded the result I thought I should go on as a group, and make a real Men Without Hats album. The covers, including the “Safety Dance” cover (in ballad form), were released last September and the original songs are out now. It was originally a double album and we finally decided to release it in two parts.

PAN M 360: The new album has 14 original songs. So you were inspired!

IVAN DOROSCHUK: Yes, we had recorded about 20 songs and we have enough material to release another album soon! We are in writing and production mode.

PAN M 360: How do you see the sound progressing in this new context?

IVAN DOROSCHUK: I still see our vintage sound. The sound hasn’t changed that much. Men Without Hats doesn’t have to adapt so much to the sound of today, it’s more like the sound of today adapts to the sound of Men Without Hats. Except for the “Sideways” album as I said before, our sound has stayed pretty much the same.

PAN M 360: Will you be touring soon?

IVAN DOROSCHUK: Yes, there is talk of a Canadian tour in the fall. We already have dates in Quebec.

PAN M 360: What about your Ukrainian origins in the actual context?

IVAN DOROSCHUK: My paternal great-grandfather immigrated to Manitoba, my grandfather was three years old. So it’s been a very long time and today we don’t have any known family there. My father went back there about 20 years ago, hoping to find members of his distant family, but without success. My mother is not Ukrainian, her family is from Wales. We did not speak the languages, but my father speaks Russian and Ukrainian. On the other hand, Ukrainian music has been passed on in our family. My father is an amateur musician, he used to play with my grandfather at community parties, at barn dances in Manitoba. My father went on to do his masters and PHD at the University of Illinois after which he became a Professor of Physiology at the University of Montreal. My mother was also a professor at McGill University, teaching classical voice.

PAN M 360: And so you were able to count on a career singer mother to become a singer yourself.

IVAN DOROSCHUK: Yes, but in fact, my brother Colin also has a training in classical singing, he studied at McGill University and also at the University of Victoria. He actually did my voice ten years ago. I hadn’t made music for a while but I could still sing, but I didn’t know if my voice would hold up for 40 or 50 shows. My brother Colin, on the other hand, is really trained in classical singing, he has even created vocal works, he writes operas, he teaches and therefore knows the techniques of singing. He completely deconstructed my voice and taught me the techniques for several months, after which I was singing better than ever before. I now had the tools to get through it. Now I can do five concerts in a row without any problems.

PAN M 360: Even though your family is of distant Ukrainian descent, it must be quite overwhelming to watch this happen, right?

IVAN DOROSCHUK: I prefer not to comment too much. I just hope that there will be a peaceful resolution, I hope that peace will come soon.

PAN M 360: Copy that. So you’ll be back on stage soon and you’ll be defending the material on your new recordings.

IVAN DOROSCHUK: Since it’s the 40th anniversary of the “Rhythm of Youth” album, we are presenting the complete album in the first part, the second part is a best of of Men Without Hats and some new songs on the program. We were surprised by the length of the first album, more or less 30 minutes, only songs for the radio at the time, so it is easily a set.

PAN M 360: What are you listening to now?

IVAN DOROSCHUK: A lot of things, the first half of the 70s, a lot of electric jazz from the 70s, progressive rock…

PAN M 360: And the current period?

IVAN DOROSCHUK: It does not interest me so much.

Sam Goldberg Jr. is a guy who is kind of all over the Canadian music scene map. He’s a guitarist in the supergroup, Broken Social Scene, played bass in Bodega, and helped guide the alternative rock sound in the early 2000s, he’s been nominated for the Producer of the Year at the Felix awards in Quebec—the list of accolades goes on. 

All throughout his career, peers, and friends always encouraged Sam to release his own solo record, but it wasn’t an easy task. He essentially started from scratch after being disappointed with the result he created and approached the new project as a painter does a painting—by picking a palette of sounds to work with.

The self-titled debut is a fantastic offering of grooving psych-rock but features bongos, flute, saxophone, and a good amount of wah-wah. We spoke to Sam about his creative process, love of the wah-wah and fuzz, and working with the ‘International It-girl,’ Tess Parks. 

PAN M 360: I had no idea what to expect for this solo debut from you and I kind of just threw it on and immediately got the psych-rock/garage influence. 

Sam Goldberg Jr: I wasn’t quite expecting it to turn out that way. I actually, made an entire album before this one. I started in about 2018 and I didn’t really know what I was doing. I just knew I wanted to make a record. I had people over the years saying, ‘Hey, man, you need to do your own record.’ So I made a record and I didn’t like it because there were too many ideas going on. And the songs didn’t fit with the range of my voice—I got a low baritone vocal. And lyrically, it didn’t feel right. And I spent all this money and then I was like, ‘Fuck this. I’m not putting this out. Because I’m not happy with it.’

PAN M 360: That sounds like a bummer. Taking all that time and then starting from square one. What made you try again?

Sam Goldberg Jr: I was hanging with a friend of mine and he was telling me about how Boards of Canada—before they even start an album—they choose the palette of sounds that they’re going to use before they make an album. So at the time, when I shelved the first record I made—this is probably at the very beginning of the pandemic—I said to myself, ‘What are the sounds that I like, currently?’ Similar to how you’re gonna make a painting, maybe choose like six or seven colours, and like that’s all I’m going to use. And at the time, I loved fuzz guitars. I still love fuzz tones. And for some reason I developed … I don’t know where it came from … but a love for the wah-wah pedal. I don’t know why that happened.

But I said to myself, ‘I want to have a fuzz guitar, a wah-wah guitar, bass, drums, my vocal and this one synthesizer I really like called the Korg Delta.’ So it was like, ‘That’s going be the album.’ And then once I had that palette of colours, it just came together so quickly, because there weren’t so many options. Sometimes there are just so many sounds and shit can get stuck and lost. But if you limit yourself to something, it’s really very helpful.

PAN M 360: It was really refreshing to hear the wah-wah pedal all the way throughout this psych-rock record. It’s funny because a lot of guitarists have a wah-wah pedal, but they’ll use it only every now and then. It’s kind of synonymous with the psychedelic genre, but also just like ‘70s funk, but the way that you use it is kind of droney. 

Sam Goldberg Jr: Yeah, you have to be careful, because you’re right. It’s like there’s a 70s funk thing. And you know, I wanted to use it in a way that wasn’t cheesy. There’s some cheesy wah-wah out there.

PAN M 360: That’s what I meant, the cheesy wah-wah sound. 

Sam Goldberg Jr: What’s the guy’s name who played with Mazzy Star? I think he died recently. I can’t remember his name [it’s David Roback], but the way he used a wah-wah was really cool. It’s sort of very messy and sort of in the background, it’s not too apparent. I think maybe that’s where I’d heard of and thought ‘That’s a nice use of the wah-wah.’ But going back to the creation of the record, there was a small window before I made this record, and I shelved the other one, when I wanted to make something mellow. I wanted to make something for like a 3 pm to like 6 pm hanging on the fucking lake or on your deck or whatever. Because I’m a mellow guy and I don’t really like super aggressive music.

I had just seen that movie The Big Lebowski and I was like, ‘What would the Dude’s band sound like? I’m gonna make a record from his perspective.’ He wants to live this chill existence, like all of us and obviously, there are obstacles every fucking second of the day that we need to deal with, but what would his band sound like. I tried that for a while. And some of the songs were sort of dressed up in a more mellow fashion. But then it wasn’t really working and that’s when I discovered the palettes thing. 

PAN M 360: I’d picture The Dude’s band being more acoustic ‘70s folk jam rock like Grateful Dead or something. Very organic sounding. 

Sam Goldberg Jr: Yeah it was definitely mellower but then it got replaced with the fuzz stuff and I don’t know, maybe I just like more intense tones? And maybe I’m just not ready to be that guy sitting on the beach playing an acoustic quite yet. Either way, I’m kind of shocked, to be honest, that I made an album that I’m happy with. I’m just very happy that I put a record out. And that people like it. And you know, it’s being the CBC is spinning it which is cool. Like I didn’t get a grant or FACTOR or anything. I just paid out of my own pocket to make this stuff because I just love making music and I’ll always make it. 

PAN M 360: I played this album when I was just walking in Montreal one night and the song “Sweet Face” came on and I was like ‘Is that Tess Parks’ voice? I’m an avid listener of Brian Jonestown Massacre and they’ve worked with her quite a bit so I immediately recognized her voice and the harmonies you guys have in “Sweet Face” are gorgeous.

Sam Goldberg Jr:  That came at the end of the record. I wanted another voice for again, another colour, and I reached out to a friend and he was like ‘Tess Parks would be perfect on this.’ And of course, I know who she is, and I know who she has worked with. So I was hesitant to reach out because I just feel like I’m just this drip, Orc musician. And she’s, like, International ‘It’ cool girl. But I sent her the song and she right away responded. She’s like, ‘I love this. I want to do it.’ So I was really excited that she did it and I just love her voice. She’s got so much character … It’s so low and growly and raspy. I really want to do some more music with her and I think she’s on board. Maybe a new project or maybe more skating around some of my songs or whatever. But yeah, we both sort of come from the same place and love of certain music, which I didn’t realize so much before. But she’s amazing. I’m a huge fan. I think she really saves the song. 

PAN M 360: And there’s also flute and saxophone on this record. Where did that inspiration come from?

Sam Goldberg Jr: I think there was this band, The Sound Carriers, I think? One summer I was camping with a group of friends and we were sitting there and I heard some flute in just one song I was like, ‘That’s fucking a beautiful sounding instrument.’ And it just sort of I put it in my notes maybe I should put the flute in the song. And you know saxophone as well just, I was having trouble with that first song on the album, “You Lock The Door, I Broke The Window” with the outro. I didn’t want to put another guitar solo. And I just thought, ‘Hey, maybe a sax would be nice there.’ Throughout the album, you’ve got to hear something as sort of a cohesive piece as if it’s one long song. So it’s nice to have little different flavours coming in and out. So it was more of just to allow the ear to have a little taste of something different. 

PAN M 360:  Have you approached playing this album live too?

Sam Goldberg Jr: Yeah, I guess I will. I mean, I wrote the songs so that they would be presentable in a live setting. Because I do enjoy playing live. And I have some guys playing with me—one of the guys who plays in Broken Social Scene as well, Brendan Canning on bass. I got Sam Roberts’ drummer, Josh Trager is playing with me. And this really amazing guitarist who goes by Champagne James Robertson. Someone recommended him to me in the beginning, and I saw him play some stuff on YouTube. I was like ‘There’s no fucking way this guy’s gonna play with me.’ And I sent him the record and he liked it. So yeah, some live shows will happen.

Nathan Mots is based in British Columbia; Truant.J, his stage name, is a reference to the horror novel House of Leaves (2000) by Mark Z. Danielewski. The tone is set: his techno is dark, raw and disturbing. TRUANT002, his second EP, is the result of a collaboration with JoeFarr from the UK, Krista Bourgeois who was born in the States but is now based in Berlin, and The GOAT from Canada. To release his music, Truant.J went as far as creating his own label. His goal: to put Vancouver on the international techno map.

PAN M 360: How did you get in contact with techno music?

Truant.J: I’m from Victoria, it’s sort of smaller on the music side of things. There is a really good sort of old folk scenes but not huge electronic music scenes. I kind of got exposed to house music when I started learning to DJing and through that learned about techno. The first time I went to Berlin with some friends, I was exposed to the club scene there and just absolutely fell in love with it. I just came home from that and was like this is the kind of music I want to really commit to.

PAN M 360: Is there an artist you saw in Berlin whom blown you away?

Truant.J: Yeah definitely, Stephanie Sykes! I saw her performing during the day at Berghain, I got there for the beginning of her set, and just stay straight through to the end. It was incredible and I actually got to open for her in Vancouver, which was pretty cool.

PAN M 360: What can you tell me about the Vancouver techno community?

Truant.J: There is this variety between what you’d call “mainstream” techno with labels like Drumcode, but there are a lot of labels more core to the roots of where it came from, and I think Vancouver’s got both sides. There’s an incredible queer techno scene in Vancouver and artists who are just doing really cool stuff, like groovy soulful techno that’s a bit dark but also fun to go and dance to. There’s people creating pop-up clubs that fit 100 people, just to try and accommodate that sort of “we’re going out at midnight and staying out until 6am,” which is really underground I guess.

PAN M 360: What are the places that gave you the opportunity to grow your career as an artist and a techno aficionado?

Truant.J: There are two clubs in Vancouver that are really important to me. The main one is Open Studios, which unfortunately closed over the pandemic, and there is Gorg-O-Mish nightclub. Both of them do a different thing, but both are super important. Gorg-O-Mish being sort of a mainstay in Vancouver, I think it’s over a decade old now, which in Vancouver and especially for underground clubs is unheard of. They open at two o’clock, they stay open till eight in the morning, and most of the time they book only one or two artists a night. They really showcase local talent and let those artists tell a story. Open Studios, just because they were bringing in tons of incredible international artists. I think one of the first shows I went to in Vancouver was Steffi playing there, and I got to see some of the local like Nancy Dru. It’s a family sort of club, but it’s also a space welcoming all sorts of different types of people, and for that reason that’s my favorite place to go and play.

PAN M 360: When I listened to some of your past works, I felt that, for example, The last sailing EP was a bit different from the rest. Did anything change in the way you make music today and, if so, what?

Truant.J: There is a track by SNTS, Origin of light and it’s just incredible. I remember going for a walk in Vancouver one night and just feeling physically uncomfortable listening to this song because it’s spooky, dark, raw and there’s noises that come in that almost make you jump… It can be things that have darker melodies too. There’s a song by Godspeed You! Black Emperor, it’s just somebody talking about this horrible dystopian world for three minutes and then the song comes (Editor’s note: The Dead Flag Blues). I love that kind of music. I want music that makes me feel a little bit uncomfortable, that makes me sit back and think.

PAN M 360: Is that what you wanted to do with Wicked Fervor?

Truant.J: I wanted to do something really aggressive. I focused on taking sounds and distorting them or putting them into interesting spaces, so they don’t sound like where they came from. Then I tried to bring some melody and feeling into that as well, without making it cheesy or anything. I’m trying to find balance. I love the 4/4 stuff but I also really want to explore darker ambient stuff.

PAN M 360: How did you get in contact with the collaborating artists on the EP?

Truant.J: I looked at artists within the community and around me who I really liked. Krista Bourgeois’ music is incredible, it gives you that raw, dark, pounding feeling. The GOAT I’ve known for years and I got to grow with him. He was one of the first people I wanted to approach. JoeFarr has so been supportive I wanted him to be involved and I wanted to get that word out outside our internal community to a broader audience. The dream would be to have Vancouver recognized more on an international stage.

With Le voyage de M. Lonely dans la lune, Montreal’s psychedelic rock band Elephant Stone presents a first release effort in French. The four-song EP is the follow-up to their 2020 concept album Hollow. On that record, Rishi Dhir and his band dealt with the destruction of the world and the potential survival of humanity, while Mr. Lonely’s Trip to the Moon focuses on the survival of each individual and its consequences on a community. The son of Indian immigrants, singer, bassist, sitar player, and producer Rishi Dhir, who has been at the helm of the band for 13 years, describes the conception of this EP and why he chose to perform it in the language of Gainsbourg, a gesture that characterizes his eternal quest for identity.

PAN M 360: Who is Mr. Lonely and tell us about this trip to the moon.

Rhishi Dhir: M. Lonely is for me an extension of my last album Hollow, a concept album that was about a catastrophic event that destroys the earth, and then humanity needs to survive but in the end, we destroy what we create. I guess M.Lonely was pretty much influenced by the pandemic; we’re all home all the time, not seeing anybody. My wife was having a hard time not seeing people or be around them whereas I was fine. I guess musicians are kind of introverted extroverts. We like our quiet time to think about things. Any artists are like that. I actually thrived in it because I got to create more but at the same time, it got me thinking about the storyline of M. Lonely who never wants to be part of society and he sees the pandemic as a mockery of his condition and everyone imitating him. I was also thinking of the movie Le voyage dans la lune from Méliès. So M. Lonely builds a spaceship and goes to the moon and he looks back on earth and realizes after a while that he misses the imperfections of humanity and comes back to live out his dying years. So in some ways, it was also about me.

PAN M 360: Why did you decide to do this EP in French?

Rhishi Dhir: The band was always mostly composed of francophones throughout its history. The drummer Miles Dupire has been in the band for 12 years… So we often talked about releasing something in French. What happened is that, when I started writing these songs, I realized that the gibberish I was singing, just to go along with the music I was playing, kind of sounded like I was singing in French. So I tried to add some more English-sounding words but it didn’t quite fit as well as the stuff that sounded like French. That’s when I realized that these songs had to be sung in French. In every band I was in, we always talked about doing some songs in French, going as far back as the High Dials. I had a storyline for that album but I’m an anglophone and writing in French is not easy for me. So I asked Félix Dyotte to help me with the lyrics. He is an amazing songwriter and we’re good friends. So we hung out, we drank a lot of wine, and I gave him the storyline of each song and he wrote the lyrics afterward. I explained that part 1 and part 2 are very much emotional, more driven, and the last two parts are much more introspective. I guess I was listening a lot to the album Parachute by The Pretty Things at that time. So it’s more Pink Floydian, very introspective. When I went to Félix, he first asked me if I already had English lyrics. When I told him that I hadn’t written anything and that he would be writing the songs, that convinced him. I didn’t want a translation from English to French and neither did he.

PAN M 360: One inevitably is people associating the sitar with Elephant Stone’s music, but here, on the four tracks of the EP, it seems not to have any.

Rhishi Dhir: I recorded and mixed the EP in my studio here at my house. I do everything here. I recorded a lot of sitar for the EP but in the end, as I was mixing it, I made the decision not to put it in. You know, I’ve been doing this band for 13 years and the sitar always was a big part. But what I’ve learned, is to get that magical thing the sitar brings, you don’t always have to add sitar. For example, the song “La fusée du chagrin,” I had sitar in but it didn’t really add anything, so why put it in just for the sake of putting it in? That was a great thing to mix this album by myself because I got to really decide what I want to present rather to just give it to someone else.

PAN M 360: Now that you have an album in French, are you thinking of eventually doing one in Hindi?

Rhishi Dhir: Hmm … Nah. I thought about it, tried to throw a few lines in Hindi but, no. Maybe in the early days. When I first started Elephant Stone, I wanted sitar and was very much into my Indian heritage. I really wanted to showcase that but at the same time it had to be true to me, so it just didn’t make sense (laugh). My parents come from India but I was born and raised in Montréal. I have much more connections to this world than the other world. It’s a big part of who I am, it’s a struggle of not knowing where I fit in. Sure, my parents are Indians, I went to the temple but they never actually spoke to me in Hindi. They spoke to me in English thinking I would learn this language better. I grew up in Brossard, went to an English school but learning French in an English school back then wasn’t very strong, it was not well done. So it’s just growing up, having to deal with expectations of my parents who wanted me to be a doctor or something and then becoming a teenager and discovering Rock n’ Roll through my older brother and trying to find my identity in all of this. Every Saturday, for instance, I watched 3 hours long Bollywood movies with my parents… So my whole life, in every step, I never really felt I completely fit in a scenario. I feel like a square trying to fit in a circle (laughs). I think that’s why I am who I am. Even with the French and English culture here, it’s also not knowing where I fit in Quebec! It’s my day-to-day existence, so doing this EP is me trying to discover this other side of myself.

PAN M 360: And after this first French experience, do you think you will do more songs in this language?

Rhishi Dhir: It was a lot of work! Singing in French is very different. I was surprised at how difficult it is. It was a big effort, I’m not going to rule it out but I’ve already written and demoed the next album, and it’s in English… It was a mind fuck. I’m happy my accent wasn’t so terrible. Luckily it doesn’t sound like an Anglophone trying to sing in French. It sounds like I have a Spanish accent.

PAN M 360: Can you tell us a bit about this upcoming album?

Rhishi Dhir: We’re doing SXSW and then we’re touring the US this spring and in June we enter the studio to record the album. I listened to a lot of Yes and Genesis before writing the album. So it will be a bit prog but I was also listening to some Frank Ocean. So it will be a mix of everything. I’m excited because I think these songs are the strongest I’ve written in a while.

Carrying a casualness worthy of a Courtney Barnett, a Kurt Vile, or a Mac DeMarco type, but less cynical, Angus Stone (a.k.a. Dope Lemon) doesn’t seem like an overly stressed guy. Before going solo, Stone proved his musical skills alongside his sister in the popular dreamy folk duo Angus & Julia Stone. In parallel to his work with Julia, he concocts undulating soundscapes, full of nonchalant voices, light melodies, and down-tempo grooves. During every one of his albums, Angus Stone manages to generate a soaring atmosphere in which it is easy to let yourself go. 

Since Dope Lemon began a little more than five years ago, Angus Stone’s project has become a cultural phenomenon, especially in his native Australia. His albums (2019’s Smooth Big Cat, 2017’s Hounds Tooth EP, and 2016’s Honey Bones) have accumulated over 400 million streams, and the recently released Rose Pink Cadillac is likely to generate the same kind of excitement as the first three singles have already been streamed over 30 million times. 

On this new effort, Stone quietly continues on his sunny psychedelic road with music that makes you want to do nothing but watch the grass grow (and maybe smoke it). In short, a guy who wears his last name well…

In the middle of the austral summer, while it’s freezing here in Montreal, we joined the popular artist at his ranch—located in a small town on the east coast of Australia—a magical place where he has his own studio, vintage cars, animals and where memorable parties take place.

PAN M 360: Rose Pink Cadillac is your fourth solo album. Behind this title is a real pink Cadillac, which is the subject of a contest, but it is also the title of a song. Where does this pink car concept come from?

Angus Stone: It came from a dream of sorts. When it comes to the song itself, I guess it’s a thing about new love and being enamored by the little things the person you admire so much does. It’s really falling head over heels for someone and just loving the way they are. I guess the whole record sort of came about me wanting to put love back into the world with everything going on, the anarchy and dismay of the pandemic, and I saw it as something good to give back. The thing that I could do there is love stories with music.

PAN M 360: So did you actually fall in love with someone and did that inspire you?

Angus Stone: It’ll come from personal experiences and then it’ll also come from observations. And then the storytelling, it’s also things I pick up along the way, you know? I think it’s sort of universal, it’s like a perfect storm—you’re combining all the elements that make up a story. So it’s creative.

PAN M 360: There are two sides to the album. One is more a day side and the other one is more a night side. Can you tell me more about that?

Angus Stone: Creating a record, you know, the whole process of being in the studio, it’s a lot of work as a whole. You walk away, and it feels like you’ve written somewhat of a book. And it takes a lot of energy, and your heart and all your brainpower are necessary. And usually, when it comes to the finishing of a record, you’re pretty tired, you sort of walk away. And then you’ve got to come up with the art, which is another whole element. The artist has to create something that works with, obviously, the flavour and the emotion behind what you’ve been creating. And I’ve been working with this amazing artist [Tee Ken Ng] who basically does animated vinyl. He used to do DJ mats. I called him up, I said ”Is it possible to do that on vinyl?”  And he’s like, ”I’ve never done it before. But let’s have a look at it and see what we can do.” And he figured it out. For your readers, there is an easy way to explain how animation works on vinyl.  I guess it’s kind of like when you’re a kid and you draw, in the corner of your textbook, little stick figures on every different page, and then you crimp the book and flip all the pages and then the image moves as it flips. It’s kind of worked like that on the vinyl. And working with him was just an absolute pleasure. It’s a double album on vinyl, so we had this opportunity to create a different motive with where the music went. The first half starts off with two kitty cats driving around in a Cadillac on the beach. And then on the second disc, they end up in the mountains. And it’s a bit more moody. And you’ve got the mountains moving and pine trees swaying and very it’s cool. It’s a really magical thing.

PAN M 360: I read somewhere that you define this record as an epic frontier. Why so? Was it a difficult album to create?

Angus Stone: It didn’t take us too long. We started before everything happened in the world, with COVID kicking up dust. We were probably a month in the studio, and then we started to realize that things were sort of changing. Usually, when we walk into a studio, we throw away the keys and lock the door. And it’s what we do anyway, it’s basically what the world had us all doing. But we were already in that mode. So I think maybe it took us around four or five months to create this one. The length of time that it takes to make a record depends on how precise and pedantic you are. I think we’re a bit of both, you know. We think there’s like an ecosystem around and we’re immured in a story and we try to capture that as much as we can in the moment. And then deal with all the more technical sides of things. But every song is different, every day is different, you know? Some days you wake up and it’s a whole new thing and I think that’s when you start to get the different styles and genres coming through the music and also the storytelling changing. it all comes down to the environment, what’s going on in the world.

PAN M 360: And when you say we, who are you referring to?

Angus Stone: Me and the engineer, and then different musicians come and go. I also send a lot of the songs to people around the world. My pianist is in New York, and the guitarist is in Germany. My drummer is down in Melbourne. And another friend is in Sydney … I send all the parts out and we sort of create like that.

PAN M 360: But don’t you miss, maybe the feeling of rehearsing or playing with an actual band in the rehearsal space? All this energy that you can get with live musicians…

Angus Stone: Yeah, you know, I think if anything that this whole experience has taught us is to be adaptable. Clearly, it’s lovely to be able to look into someone’s eyes and you feel that energy across the room… that’s magic. You know, you’re always going to have that but you know, it’s a new age and sometimes you have to make compromises, and within those compromises, you find this new kind of magic and it’s a cool thing.

PAN M 360: Like most of your records, was Rose Pink Cadillac taped at your own studio?

Angus Stone: On my ranch, I have this beautiful old barn and I’ve always wanted to convert it into a big loft upstairs. So we went out and fully stripped it out and made a big open area with hardwood floors and hardwood walls, and we plastered the roof and put all these magical lights in and put a sunken fire pit with marble parquetry, a big river stone rock wall with copper around the fire and glass paneling. Then we built the studio just next to this sunken fire pit and it looks out over the field with all the horses and it’s a really magical spot. This album was the maiden voyage for that area and there’s a lot of good energy. Just the room itself is really magic.

PAN M 360: I felt that this album was groovier and more sensual, closer to Honey Bones than Smooth Big Cat but maybe I’m wrong. Would you care to comment?

Angus Stone: Like I said, every song is different. Every record is going to be different. You move based on the experiences you’re having in the world and in your heart. Things are never going to be the same and that’s what I love about music—you are constantly evolving, and I’ve always made sure that the most important thing is that my heart is free and that I’m open to new experiences and hopefully I can push that into my music. But I don’t know, I’ll leave that up to the listeners to how they view it

PAN M 360: “Howl With Me” … the beginning of the song… I know I’ve heard that somewhere. I think I have on some record but I don’t remember where it comes from.

Angus Stone: Ah yeah! So on one of the EPs we did a while ago, I did a song called  ”Home Soon.” Maybe five years ago, I was playing Grand Theft Auto. And when you jump into different cars on the game, the radio station comes on and you can actually flick through the different channels. So I was flicking the radio stations and this song came on, I think it’s called   “Stories”  by The Chakachas. I instantly Shazamed it and found out the band’s name. And then I downloaded the song. And I just loved it. I just sat there and started singing to it because it’s an instrumental, they’re an instrumental band. So I started singing to it, and it just worked perfectly with what I do. And I called up the head of Sony. And then he called someone in Paris, and then they called someone in Germany, and they tried to find these guys. But all the band members, I think, had passed away, because it was an old song [from 1972] you know. But they tracked down this guy and they showed him what I’d recorded on top of his song and he said “Yeah, I love it. Let’s do it!”  And then I did it again, on this new record, with that band but I changed the title and the lyrics.

PAN M 360: You’ve also put out an album with your sister Julia this year Life Is Strange. How do you manage your different entities?

Angus Stone: Sometimes I wonder about that myself (laughs). I take breaks in between making records. And make sure that I’m looking after myself and my well-being. But when it comes to making records, it’s something that I love doing. For me, it’s fine-tuning my craft. It’s something that I truly believe is inside me, it feels like this is what I’m supposed to be doing. And when I’m doing it, it makes me feel happy. And I get a lot out of life, the renewal of self … it sort of replenishes my soul. Just being in that style of creating something from a seed, or not even, just out of a thought that’s floating around in the back of your head, and then all of a sudden, it’s this tangible thing, which is music. I think it’s just different with Julia, it’s a cool thing. We’ve worked together for so long that we have a really special relationship and just a free-flowing energy when it comes to sitting down in the studio and making records. It’s that wisdom and trust. And obviously, we’re family and that goes a long way when it comes to getting things done. And, yeah, it feels like everything is in its right place.

PAN M 360: The record label was giving away this beautiful 1960 pink Cadillac to one lucky winner in Australia who would have pre-ordered the, aptly titled, album. So I was wondering, are you an amateur collector of vintage cars?

Angus Stone: Yeah! I collect cars. I have maybe 10 odd old cars. It’s been a bit of a fun hobby along the way. When Julia and I made a record with Rick Rubin in L.A. in 2014, I bought this old 1959 Morris Mini that I was driving around and when we were done with the record, I put it on a boat and shipped it back to my ranch. I have a ‘71 Cadillac Limo, a ‘69 Beetle, a ‘67 Valiant… what else we got… a 70’s Land Rover troupe carrier, a Ford F 100 pickup… there’s a few more… So when it came to the song “Rose Pink Cadillac,” the head of BMG rang me up. He said, “Let’s just buy this rose pink Cadillac and we’ll give it away.” And I was like, “Okay, let me sleep on that.” And I called him up in the morning and said “That’s the coolest thing.” You know, something to give back after all the years of having our fans be so loyal. It’s really a cool movement.

PAN M 360: You bet. Hey, maybe you would have liked to keep it for yourself?

Angus Stone: Yeah (laughs). It’s gonna be hard to let go. That’s for sure.

PAN M 360: So you drove it around a bit?

Angus Stone: Yeah, I have it registered under my name so I can drive it around in the meantime. So yeah, it’s one of my cars at the moment that I go down the road in and go get a coffee.

PAN M 360: Was it originally pink or it was painted over?

Angus Stone: Yes, it’s the original colour. I think it had two previous owners. It’s one of those cars that have been left in the shed, under a cover. I would love to be able to do this kind of contest in every country, have an iconic car drawn. What car in Canada is cool?

PAN M 360: Well, a Cadillac like this would do it! They make cars here but they are American brands. And having a classic car here is more complicated because of the winter; the car has to be stored half of the year.

Angus Stone: Indeed … So I’d say we might as well draw something solid and all-purpose like an old Jeep Willys, wouldn’t that be cool?

Traditional Christmas songs and baroque instrumental pieces intertwine and plunge us into the atmosphere of Christmases long ago. Soprano Meredith Hall, an excellent interpreter of these ancient repertoires, joins La Nef and its period instruments to evoke the Nativity this Tuesday in Bourgie Hall.  This material includes a recent recording by the singer and La Nef, “Oikan Ayns Bethlehem / Celtic Christmas Songs”, released on Atma.

PAN M 360: The program on the Bourgie websiste says « vocal and instrumental music from France, England, Ireland and Scotland ». Can we be more specific? Is it the repertoire from “Oikan Ayns Bethlehem / Celtic Christmas Songs “? 

Meredith Hall :   Some of Celtic songs we have recorded previously on Oikan Ayns Bethlehem,  but much of this program, (including all of the french repertoire) is relatively new for La Nef and myself. We recorded it last year for a European broadcast but this is the first time we will present this program to a live, in-person audience.

“Noëls Anciens” is quite diverse. It includes traditional folk carols and instrumental tunes from France, Ireland, Wales, Scotland and England and the Isle of Man.  Some of these are quite ancient -their earliest origins are unknown but most were assumed to be in existance by the 1600’s.  

The audience will also hear French Noëls drawn from the rich organ  repertoire of French baroque composers Pierre Dandrieu and Louis-Claude Daquin. Sylvain Bergeron has re-arranged these keyboard works for the bowed and plucked instruments of La Nef, along with baroque flute. The result is a magically transparent and luminous sound in pieces that  range from deeply contemplative to sweet playfulness.  Another unique addition to this program is the haunting “Eesus Ahatonnyah” which we have created in a new arrangement in three languages, Wendat, French, and English. The words were writen in 1642 in Wendat by Jean de Brébeuf, a Jesuit priest who learned to speak Wendat as part of his mission to convert the Wendat people.  Brébeuf included elements of traditional Wendat spirituality in his poetry, and I was very concerned to present this piece in a way that was respectful to the Wendat people and culture.  The magnificent poet and singer Andrée Levesque Sioui, who lives in Wendake and is part of the strong and continuous tradition of Wendat culture, generously taught me the Wendat pronunciation for 2 verses of the song. She also helped me to slightly rewrite the better known French and English versions to help them better reflect Wendat spirituality.

PAN M 360 :  How were those songs found and selected? 

Meredith Hall : Before the internet, we spent a lot of time in the music libraries of McGill and the University of Toronto, searching through old collections of folk  music like Playford’s “The English Dancing Master”, and the “Scots Musical Museum”. Sylvain Bergeron is a good detective – he has a great instinct for knowing which  deceptively simple tune from the 1600’s or 1700’s, will hit the ear in a fresh way, or will touch your heart, or make you laugh.  I am very word oriented, always looking for the story or the link to traditions.  And I like to play around with texts, sometimes matching familiar words to a less known tune as is the case with the 19th century lyrics of ” What Child is this?” which I have paired with an old Irish tune, “My Lagan Love” ( it is normally sung to the tune of greensleeves). And many of the instrumental tunes suggested themselves for a winter program because of their titles, like our “cold suite” which contains traditional english dance tunes with names like”On the Cold Ground”, “Drive the Cold Winter Away” and “Cold and Raw”.  

PAN M 360 : Have you already performed live this repertoire with La Nef? 

Meredith Hall: I have performed about half of the songs with La Nef before -including one of my most favourite pieces that I have ever sung  “usheg veg ruy” ( little red bird) – a sweet winter lullaby from the Isle of Man, that depicts a cold little bird searching for a warm place to sleep. We recorded the full program for Euro Radio broadcast last December but this is the first time to perform the french and Wendat live.

PAN M 360 : What can we know about your artistic and professional relationship with La Nef? How came this actual project of recording and live performance?  

Meredith Hall :  I have had the great joy of collaborating with La Nef for more than 20 years.  I first met the artistic director, Sylvain Bergeron when we collaborated on a Monteverdi project with the Toronto Consort in the late 90’s!   After a few more collaborations in renaissance and baroque projects, we discovered that we both loved traditional celtic music. We began to explore this repertoire with La Nef, using a unique blend of instruments, from very courtly baroque instruments like gamba and theorbo and recorder, to more folky instruments like nyckelharpa, hurdy-gurdy, irish flute, and bagpipes.  I guess you could call the approach baroque/folk crossover.  I grew up singing folk music in Newfoundland, so for me, vocally and interpretively, it was just coming home to my roots, singing naturally, telling the story.

PAN M 360 : How will you approach those vocal pieces ? 

Meredith Hall :  they need complete sincerity and a straightforward sweet and warm tone. None of the athleticism or bravura sometimes neccessary for opera. My best singing moments are when the music makes me so happy I can feel a smile inside my eyes and it spreads to my throat and chest.  And when I can feel that the audience is truly sharing the story as I tell it in song.

PAN M 360 : How did you develop vocal techniques, I mean baroque and more recent operatic music ? 

Meredith Hall :  I took bachelor and master degrees in Vocal  performance at the University of Toronto, then studied technique with Laura Sarti at the Guildhall of Music in London, England. From my earliest studies my interest was always lieder, and earlier music, from the middle ages up to Mozart.  The marvellous harpsichordistand forte pianist, Colin Tilney, was a big inspiration for me as I had the luck to collaborate with him often in my student days. Emma Kirby inspired me tremendously with her vocal clarity and expressivity. Also I learned rennaisance and baroque style on the job with the Toronto Consort and with many important roles with Opera Atelier and the Baroque Orchestra Apollo’s Fire. The Conductor Nicholas McGegan taught me a lot, through his always dancing, alive approach to Handel.  

PAN M 360 : Do you consider yourself mainly involved in the baroque and ancient music repertoire? Do you prefer this ancient/baroque/folklore repertoire?

Meredith Hall: I can enjoy singing many styles of music ( including jazz!) But I am most at home and most myself in the ancient and folk music.

PAN M 360 : What are your next recording and live performance projects?

Meredith Hall: I am preparing a program of music  with period harpist Julia Seager-Scott based around the life and works of the writer Jane Austen.  And I am collaborating on a very important cycle of songs with Toronto composer Frank Horvat entitled Fractures, which explores the theme of Fracking ( an environmentally dangerous mode of Oil and gas extraction) and how it affects humanity.  It is a very intense and emotional project, because the looming environmental crisis is so terrifying to me, especially as a mother.

PAN M 360:  Where are you based actually? 

Meredith Hall: Toronto in body (Newfoundland in heart).

MUSICIANS

Guest: Meredith Hall, soprano
La Nef:
Sylvain Bergeron, archlute, Baroque guitar, music director 
Robin Grenon, harps
Grégoire Jeay, recorders and Baroque transverse flute 
Alex Kehler, folk violin and nyckelharpa
Marie-Laurence Primeau, viola da gamba
Andrew Wells-Oberegger, percussions

PROGRAMME

Vocal and instrumental music from France, England, Ireland, and Scotland

MEREDITH HALL ET LA NEF PERFORM LIVE ON TUESDAY DECEMBER 14 , 7H30 PM, ALLE BOURGIE. FOR INFOS AND TICKETS , IT’S HERE.

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