Ky Brooks is a shining beacon in Montréal’s experimental music playground. Playing in past bands like Shining Wizard, Femmaggots, Lungbutter, and Nag, Ky also serves as the live sound person for Big|Brave, and house tech at mainstay Montréal indie venue La Sala Rossa. Ky was also a central co-conspirator at the pivotal and fertile DIY loft space La Plante throughout the 2010s, giving birth to much of Montreal’s newer burgeoning experimental artists.
During the pandemic, Ky had time to reflect on their own solo journey as an artist and then made the collaborative album, Power Is The Pharmacy—out now via the mighty, Constellation Records, along with 11 other musicians such as; Mat Ball, synth maven Nick Schofield, saxophonist James Goddard (Egyptian Cotton Arkestra), bassist Joshua Frank (Gong Gong Gong), drummer Farley Miller (Shining Wizard), and Andrés Salas (Bosque Rojo). Many of those musicians became part of Ky’s live band, and are giving a proper live debut with a mini three-date tour, including one date for Montreal’s experimental music festival, Suoni Per Il Popolo. We spoke with Ky, and saxophonist, James Goddard, ahead of the Suoni show.
PAN M 360: Hey Ky, so you must be in rehearsals for the Suoni show?
Ky Brooks: Yeah it’s actually me and the band on the line; James, Mathieu, Farley, and Rob. We’re playing in Toronto tomorrow. So we’re getting ready for that and then Ottawa the day after.
PAN M 360: Is it going to be mostly the new album, Power Is The Pharmacy?
Ky Brooks: It will be for those two dates, just all the new album. There are excluded, two of the more melodic songs. It’s a slightly different interpretation of it, I guess. Because there’s only one synth on stage. And there’s a ton of synths on the recordings.
PAN M 360: And I feel for this kind of music. There’s a huge amount of room for live improv?
Ky Brooks: Yeah for sure. And you know, the songs are so weirdly structured on the recordings so we’ve like found ways to structure them and maybe making sense for playing might feel a little bit more concise. But it’s still weird.
PAN M 360: Is it kind of like constant music too, with songs bleeding into each other?
James Goddard: We’ve only done the set once in December and I think we kind of designed it to be like a freight train.
PAN M 360: And Ky, how did you go about making this solo project, deviating from making music with full bands in the past?
Ky Brooks: It’s kind of funny, because the actual album has, so many people playing on it—like 11 different musicians play on it. And the folks here, with the exception of Rob, played on the record. I think it’s sort of this thing where like it would be amazing to have everybody in that whole group of people play, but it’s just too much to wrangle 11 people. I was just sort of thinking about how to put the music together live in such a way that we can cover all the bases, basically. And this is a group that ended up being chosen. And I’m sure there will be other configurations down the road. Honestly what happened is I did The Artist’s Way, which is this 12-step book course about reclaiming your creativity. It’s based on AA. So I did that deep into the pandemic and this album is kind of what came out. So I wasn’t really like, ‘I want to have a solo project thing’ at all. I prefer playing in groups and I like to improvise with people and you know, like pals and noise, that’s what I like. So doing this sort of like a self-directed thing, being isolated in the pandemic, I needed to be making something.
Ky by Stacy Lee
PAN M 360: And recording it, was it you bringing these skeletal structures of songs and having the musicians do what they do?
Ky Brooks: That’s definitely part of what happened. It’s kind of like a collage
James Goddard: Those initial recording sessions with Andrés and Nick, You’re like, ‘I have a page of words. And I have no idea what the music should be around the words.’ And we’re just like, OK ‘Let’s do a music’ and some of that stuff ended up on the album. And then others got erased and replaced by different stuff. You would send it to Farley and he would come with a drum beat. And then you would take out the saxophone or whatever and then put on a synth and then like the song. There was almost no scaffolding and it was really your process of assembling.
Ky Brooks: It’s interesting, I and Joni Void interviewed each other on CKUT last week and bonded over that very similar process of making music. Basically a collage from sound, right? So, I didn’t write some music. And then my friends played on it. It was more like, it just was assembled from the things that people were doing. And like what people sent to me or like, did in the moment, and there was a lot of taking things from one place and putting them somewhere else. And there’s field recordings and stuff like that on there, too, which I think is sort of, like an odd again, to that process of like assemblage.
PAN M 360: And now translating these songs live is another form of assemblage.
Ky Brooks: Yeah, I feel like we’re like a Nu Metal band live (laughs). For this live show, for example, Rob is playing the guitar on this and they didn’t play on the album. And they’re playing a bunch of parts that were originally synth parts, actually. So there’s the sort of reinterpretation that we’re doing of like, figuring out like, how to translate it live.
PAN M 360: I wanted to ask you about the lyrical verse, this almost fragmented poeticism. Do you write down your own interpretations in a journal daily?
Ky Brooks: Yeah, I mean, I do journal every day. But the material on Power Is The Pharmacy is mostly somewhat structured poems, which don’t have the form of what is on the album but are poems that I had sat on for a really long time. Like “Elven Silverware,” for example, is a poem that I think I have been performing live for, like, six years, at least in different configurations. You know, some and then some of them were just improvised during the recording, like “Dragons.” Like “The Dancer,” that’s definitely like, I wrote it as a song rather than as a poem. So there’s a lot of skipping around at this point. I’ve been working on this stupid thing for like, so fucking long that I just know it all pretty well. But I think you have kind of different vibes and different emotions with each song.
PAN M 360: Would you say that there’s a theme that holds the whole album together, or like maybe a few?
Ky Brooks: I can tell you the embarrassing truth about this album, which is that the original name of it was ‘Capitalism Dreams, and the Fear of Loss,’ which, of course, I could not keep as the name of the album. But those are the three themes of the album, and there’s actually sort of three different sets of—you could break it down into three different groups of songs, which are about these three different aspects. Sort of the underlying theme of the album, for me, is related to getting older and related to how ephemeral life is and how incredibly scary it is to exist, knowing that. And then sort of drawing a parallel between, the changing city, and how infrastructure and you know, like zoning laws, change how we experience our daily life, and the places that we live in and are in.
James Goddard: There’s also the quote that inspired the title. Should I read the quote? I’m going to read it. ‘Power Is the Pharmacy, thanks to its capacity to transform the sources of death into a seeding strength, or to convert the resources of death into the capacity for healing. And it is because of its dual ability to be the force of life and the principle of death that power is at once revered and feared…’
Ky Brooks: I mean, I feel like that’s that book, A Critique Of Black Reason by Achille Mbembe. And maybe more specifically, there’s another book by the same author called Necropolitics, which is how in capitalism, death becomes a source of power. Who is allowed to die and who’s forced to die becomes a tool for reinforcing or recreating capitalism, basically. Yeah. And that’s, I think, also one of the deep themes of the album. And, you know, sort of reading this author all scripts, and taking that quote at face value.
James Goddard: We like nerd shit in this band.
PAN M 360: Finally what do you think we can expect from the upcoming Suoni performance?
Ky Brooks: I mean my hope is that it’s just gonna be really fun, weird, stupid, Sotterranea vibes. We’re playing with their friends, HRT and Genital Shame, who are coming in from the States. And they’re an experimental queer black metal project.
PAN M 360: Experimental queer black metal? Man, only at Suoni.
In 1993, the success of a New York boutique selling ethnoculturally inspired hadicraft clothing turned into a music label. Thus was born a record label that would become one of the most famous in the world.
Putumayo World Music’s 30th anniversary is being celebrated throughout 2023, but one of the highlights will take place this Friday, May 26, at the company’s headquarters in northern Vermont. It’s close by, about 150 km from Montreal, and everyone is welcome (just cross the border)! Quebec artists will be participating: Wesli, Diogo Ramos, Mamzelle Ruiz and Bia.
On the occasion of this anniversary, I met Jacob Edgar, ethnomusicologist and long-time partner of founder Dan Storper. How do you explain the great success of the label? Why did they choose to release compilations rather than full-length albums of artists? What have been the challenging moments in the company? How is Putumayo adapting to the arrival of streaming platforms? We discussed all of this, and more. Here’s a recap.
Pan M 360 : The story is fairly well known: a popular clothing store in New York (spoofed in Seinfeld!) used to play “world” music as a background to shopping. Then, Dan Storper, owner of the store, decided to make a record label out of his choices and propose to sell compilation albums. The rest is history. But in order to better comprehend what really happened, can you tell us if it was a well-prepared plan from the beginning or just a throw at life that eventually caught on big?
Jacob Edgar : I don’t think it was luck. I think that Dan’s real inspiration for starting Putumay was that he was finding that customers really loved his playlists and that they weren’t hearing that kind of music anywhere else. That’s the first reason. The second one is that what we then called World Music, and which was emerging at that time, had a universal appeal. It seemed to him that it brought people together and so I think he saw something very positive in a global perspective.
He recognized that there was a need for a music company that was promoting music to a wide, mainstream audience that had a positive message. And that was based on a few but solid principles : the songs had to be easily accessible to people who weren’t experts in music of the world, and they had to be presented in a very clear and identifiable way (with the artwork and the brand that he developed).
But the real creative genius, the thing that really set Putumayo apart was that as CDs were becoming the main delivery platform for music, which is when Putomayo was starting, Dan realized that you could put these CDs in places that didn’t just sell music! You didn’t have to rely just on record stores. So he put his CDs in all kinds of retail stores, clothing, handicraft, natural products, etc. He didn’t have experience in music, but he had some in retail, so it governed his choices and it appeared like a really fresh approach at the time.
Pan M 360 : From the beginning, he had a ‘’public-friendly’’ approach…
Jacob Edgar : Yeah, everybody loves music, you know. But not everybody is a music nerd, like we are, and I think that Dan took what I would call a democratic approach to this repertoire, make it easy to digest, make it accessible, make it appealing, and make it something that will bring more of your audience into it. Nobody else was doing that. There were other record labels at that time specialized in world music, like Luaka Bop, but they were really artsy and New York, kind of David Byrne vibe. There was also Real World, which was Peter Gabriel, and they have a lot of, you know, kind of really deep, tribal stuff. They were going into all these different experimental directions, and Putumayo, especially in the beginning, was sort of the easy-to-digest World Music brand that made it accessible for not just people like me, but also for my mother and for my kids.
And then, there’s another Putumayo signature. It’s the fact that these albums are all, well almost all, compilations with a thematic center.
Pan M 360 : Like African Yoga (to name one of the most recent ones), or Music for the Coffe Lands (which was a great idea!). Why has this choice been made in the beginning, rather than focusing on one artist or group each time?
Jacob Edgar : That’s because Putumayo is very very selective. We try to find songs that we like and that we think other people are going to like. That can be tough if you’re working for an artist-based record label, because in that scenario, the artist is the creative force. Here, Putumayo alone is the creative force. We’re the ones making those choices, those artistic choices.
During a brief period for about five or six years between 1997 and 2003 or something, we started signing artists. We had a parallel label called Putumayo Artists. We signed Habib Koité from Mali, Oliver Mtukudzi from Zimbabwe, Chico Cesar from Brazil and Miriam Makeba. But it was tough because an artist is a brand and has his/her own identity, own look. Artists also have their own opinions about their music, which is absolutely normal. But then we let go of our choice capacity and freedom.
Public wise, it also can be very hard for somebody who’s a casual consumer, like the original target audience for Putumayo to take a chance on an artist. ‘’Oh, Music from the coffee lands, that sounds interesting! I can play that when I’m drinking coffee! And it has music from 10-12 different artists. Since they were chosen carefully, they must be, most of them if not all, quite good!’’ That’s the point of view we thought was the basis of our customers’ thinking. A single artist is more risky from this angle. How often do you like one song only on an album?
Pan M 360 : You introduced the concept of moods in music listening playlists…
Jacob Edgar : Exactly. We were doing what Spotify is now trying to do with mood based playlists. We introduced the whole concept.
Pan M 360 : Kudos for that! But now, how do you think you can evolve and remain ahead, since everybody is doing it nowadays? How can you go further and stay innovative and fresh?
Jacob Edgar : Well, that was a question we were asking ourselves for a number of years, when the digital transition started. Putumayo had a very hard time doing this transition, honestly. Dan resisted it, because he felt that so much of the experience was in the product, the packaging, the artwork, the liner notes, the tactile object. And not only that : so much of our success came from our distribution model, which we set ourselves apart, where you could find our records all over the world in non traditional outlets, like museums, shops, and bookstores.
We were selling millions of records at that time (before the digital revolution), compared to most other world music labels that were selling, maybe, if they were lucky, 10,000. Even major labels were jealous of us because of our distribution network.
But suddenly, we didn’t have that anymore, we didn’t have that special thing. And we didn’t have the tactile object. And suddenly, anybody could make a playlist! So Dan resisted for a long time going digital. Until finally, after it was very clear that the physical market was declining, he decided to just go with Apple. It wasn’t until, maybe, four years ago, I’m not sure not that long ago, that he agreed to put his music on Spotify. So very, very recently.
We were wondering what does the future hold for Putumayo? How are we going to make this experience in this new context? We finally came up with a model that we’re really excited about, that we’ve been playing with for the last year or so. We are creating playlists on Spotify. And that has been very successful. What we realized is that, even though the world of music is at your fingertips now and you can find almost anything, what has happened is that people have become completely and totally overwhelmed. There’s so much music being created. There is so much content. People need curation from other people they trust. Spotify, they don’t do that. They use algorithms and so on. We are still humans thinking hard and listening carefully to what we put out. So we use Spotify as a relaying system to the same quality of curation we have always put into our products. We are glad it is working.
Dan StorperJacob Edgar
Pan M 360 : You put more emotions and care…
Jacob Edgar : Right. Algorithms can’t figure out this kind of music. It’s too broad. It still needs a human touch, a curation process. So the official Putumayo playlists are on Spotify, Apple, YouTube, etc.
We’ve also started signing non exclusive single song deals with artists that allow us to re-release their songs under the Putumayo brand. I think that this is now the future for Putumayo. More and more people are needing that service that we provide. I’m really excited, also because we can give more opportunities to more artists! When we were doing physical CDs, I was very frustrated because we only had a certain number of slots every year, because, you know, we were putting out maybe eight to ten CDs a year, with ten to twelve songs each. That was it. But now with playlists and with our Putumayo Discovery Series, I can get more artists to benefit from the Putumayo brand than ever before. Our family is growing and growing. It’s really nice.
Pan M 360 : But Spotify and others don’t give a lot of money…
Jacob Edgar : Well, if you have volume, yes. We have more than 120 000 followers on Spotify. It’s more than most other record labels. More than Blue Note. We choose asong that we like, and it is doing 1 000 streams. We get it to a playlist with 120 times that. I feel it’s a good thing for the artists.
Pan M 360 : Has there been hardships in those 30 years?
Jacob Edgar : Of course.
First of all, back in the early days, the challenge was just getting people to take us seriously. Because of the fact that we were targeting non music aficionados, that we were targeting a wide audience. A lot of the journalists, a lot of the media, and a lot of the other record labels and industry people didn’t take us seriously. You know, they thought what we were producing was not worthy of attention from them.
But that changed a lot over the years because of our success. People realized that Putumayo was playing an important role. And a lot of those labels that didn’t want to license stuff to us completely changed their mind until the point where they were pitching to try to convince us to include their songs in our collections. And eventually, they came to realize that there’s a lot of thought that goes into these collections, and that the music that we were picking was not crap, it was good. It didn’t matter for us if the artist on the compilation was a big star or completely unknown. If the song is great, we want it and we want to give that artist a shot.
Other challenges we had were that Dan is is an entrepreneur, classic entrepreneur, he thinks big. In the mid 2000s, he thought probably too big, you know, like trying to grow the company to a point that was too big for it, spending more money than he probably should have.
There was a time in the mid 2000s, when we had 100 offices and over 140 employees, which for an independent record label was huge. We had warehouses everywhere. I mean, we had an office in South Africa and the Netherlands, a warehouse in Taiwan. I mean, we had offices in Brazil, it was crazy. We had offices everywhere. But we didn’t have outside investment. So that growth, which requires a lot of capital, had to come from the money that we were generating as a business. And even though we were selling a lot of records, we were spending a lot of money too. So that has been a challenge for Putumayo at times over the years. Because the reality is we’re still a record label. Every record label struggles with trying to continue to produce and market and promote and distribute their content, while also making enough money to make it cover everything that you’re doing.
Now we’ve made the decision eliminate physical products starting next year. It’s going to reduce a lot of the costs, while enabling us to continue developing the revenue streams that are the future for the company. We have much less employees, also. At our height, we had 140 or 150 people. That was in the mid 2000s. Over the years, it’s been slowly reducing and reducing and reducing. Now the staff is quite small. It’s down to its core. We have an office in New Orleans, we have our office in Vermont, and then we have a few people representing us in Europe and a few other territories. We’ve all gotten more efficient.
Pan M 360 : How did you spot songs and musicians at the time? And now?
Jacob Edgar : I would go on actual research trips to different countries. I would go to Brazil, if we were working on a collection from Brazil. If we were working on a Greek collection, I’d go to Greece. And I would hit record stores and meet with record labels. And I would come home with a suitcase filled with CDs. And at the same time people were sending me CDs. And you know, if you Google me, you’ll find a picture of my desk at the time, which was just like this height full of albums.. Now, I listen to music on the web. All day long!
I also subscribe to lots of newsletters and radio charts and blogs. And you know, I’m on the mailing list for lots and lots of people. I also use a couple of submission platforms like SubmitHub and Groover. These are platforms where artists can submit music to you and you can give them feedback and listen to their songs. I also do a lot of outreach, I’ll reach out to people and say, you know what’s hot? What are you listening to? I developed a process where I am every day listening to hours of music. I’ve come up with a database system and how to sort it and how to present it. So every week I present Dan with new songs. He takes what I present to him and makes his selections from those and then I will argue for him to pick ones that he might have overlooked. And we go back and forth until we have a roster of songs we will pursue for our new Putumayo discovery project. Some of them we will just add to our playlists. Some of them we will keep in our database, maybe for future compilations. And I’m doing the same thing with music videos. I’m always looking for new music videos. It’s an ongoing and very, very intensive process.
Pan M 360 : Going through your catalog, I see that some parts of the world are less represented, like the sub-Indian continent for example. Why is that?
Jacob Edgar : It has to do with the fact that we have always prioritized music that we think is accessible to the widest possible audience. There are certain types of music, either from certain parts of the world, or certain genres of music, that are not as easy for the audience we’re targeting. It can be a little more challenging for them, like, the scales are a little different, the style of vocalizations might be a little more, you know, intense. We want to start easy, and then people can get deeper as they grow comfortable. Some styles of music are more akin to classical music, which is great, but they ask for more deep listening, less casual.
I’m always trying to present music to people who don’t know that much about world music. And the reality is, it’s like food : if you give somebody pickled sheep’s testicles, they’re going to be like, Whoa, yeah, I don’t know. But if you give them you know, like, a hamburger with some different spice in it, they’re going to be able to accept that more easily, if they can relate to it in some way. We try to do that in the sense that we’re trying to create adventures, even if people who are coming to us are not necessarily the most adventurous.
Pan M 360 : What are you expecting to accomplish in the coming 30 years?
Jacob Edgar :
It is a good question. And it’s one that we haven’t necessarily directly discussed, me and Dan. Right. We mostly concentrated on adapting our model to thrive and survive. I think we found that for now. But where do we take it from here? That’s a conversation we need to start having now. I hope we’re able to develop a brand that connects with a new audience of younger people.
Pan M 360 : What are your demographics?
Jacob Edgar : It tends to be over 30 years old, but I think that’s mostly because that’s the audience that recognizes the brand the most. And we are now finding more and more younger people discovering our music, because it’s so widely visible now on the platforms.
The concept of Putumayo was always to be more than a music company. It’s a lifestyle company. It’s an attitude towards the world. Music is sort of the starting point for that. We always had visions of going into television, and travel and books, and just never really had the time or the resources to do that. I’m hoping that in this new period, Putumayo can do those types of things and become a true brand that promotes a multicultural view on the world, a celebration of diversity, because that’s really what it is about. It’s about saying the other is not something to be afraid of, the other is something to embrace, and to celebrate, and to say, Isn’t it great that we all do things differently? That’s the whole point of the label.
Pan M 360 : Jacob, we could continue this for another hour. I want to talk about you own label, Cumbancha. And the fact that you have moved to Montreal, and become a Canadian citizen. You have interesting views and projects about this city, and also on music outside of Putumayo, your work as an ethnomusicologist and as a speaker on local music traditions with National Geographic cruises around the world. But it will have to be another time, that I promise. Thank you so much!
Jacob Edgar : We’ll do that soon.Thank you!
Discover the Putumayo World Music Hour, a 60-minute international musical journey that has been broadcast on more than 100 radio stations for the past 20 years and on demand at www.putumayo.com/radioshow
On Saturday, May 27, 2023, ”The Way of the Heart” will resonate in Montreal with all the breadth of its joyful mysticism. With its real name Qawwali, this 700 year old musical style, mainly present in Pakistan and India, and mainly known in the West through the voice of Nusrat Fateh Ali Khan (1948-1997, though a controversial one), will be heard in all its splendor on the stage of Concordia University’s Oscar Peterson Hall on Sherbrooke Street West. For the occasion, one of the most eminent ensembles will be heard : Fareed Ayaz and Abu Muhammad Qawwali Ensemble. The two musicians named are, in addition, direct descendants of a very long line of virtuosos associated with the greatest school of Qawwali in India.
If you know anything about Nusrat Fateh Ali Khan, you know that there is nothing dry or boring about this genre, which is rooted in Muslim religious practice of the Sufi branch. On the contrary, it is a true devotional feast, marked by rigor but expressed in a good mood and an open-mindedness that makes all the extreme rigorists of the world tremble! For us Westerners, and in order to better understand the kind of atmosphere that emanates from a Qawwali music concert, the comparison could easily be made with American Gospel music, in which elements of call and response songs would have been inserted and which would have been built with the structural richness of Bach’s Cantatas!
This kind of concert is not as common in Quebec as it is in Ontario, for example, where South Asian communities have a larger footprint (things are changing, though : this community is growing fast in Montreal). So, if you are curious about non-Western art music, you should take full advantage of this opportunity!
Perhaps for the first time in a francophone media in Quebec (this interview was first published in French), a serious interview has been conducted with undisputed Qawwali virtuosos, what Wynton Marsalis can be for jazz, William Christie for baroque music or Joyce DiDonato for opera. Here are excerpts of a meeting with Abu Muhammad, long time partner of Fareed Ayaz, together two ”graduates” of the prestigious Qawwal Bachon ka Gharana school of Delhi, incidentally the institution where Nusrat Fateh Ali Khan also studied!
Pan M 360: Qawwali remains unknown in the West. How can you summarize the style and meaning for people who have never heard it?
Abu Muhammad: Qawwali is a musical genre that expresses devotion to God. The name comes from ‘Qaul’, which means word (of the prophet). Qawwali is popular mostly in India and Pakistan and some parts of Bangladesh. It was created over 700 years ago by Amir Khusrau, himself a disciple of the Sufi saint Hazrat Nizamuddin Auliya. The aim was to simplify ‘Samah’ (religious and philosophical poetry sessions), which existed before, and make it more popular for the general public.
Pan M 360: So this is a musical genre that was intended from the beginning to be accessible! Is it a uniform genre, or are there several sub-genres?
Abu Muhammad: In our tradition and our gharana (school), there are several sub-genres borrowed from other traditions such as thumri, ghazal, bhajan etc. But regardless of the genre or sub-genre, for us the ultimate goal is to reach God via the path of love.
Pan M 360: A love magnificently carried by music… What place does Qawwali have in the Muslim society in general? Does its Sufi origins allow it to be equally appreciated in the Shiite and Sunni communities?
Abu Muhammad: Qawwali is found mostly in India, Pakistan and some parts of Bangladesh. There is no barrier between Shiites and Sunnis in the appreciation of Qawwali. Its music is universal. For example, there is a song that says that after the Prophet ‘Whoever accepts me as his master, for him, Ali is also the master‘. So both Shiites and Sunnis accept this notion.
Some tickets still available for the concert on sale HERE
Pan M 360: Is the practice of this musical art widespread or is it rather the work of a motivated minority (a bit like classical music in the West)?
Abu Muhammad: The practice is more widespread than classical music (from the West or the East) because the message contained in Qawwali goes beyond music. It is about devotions and prayers filled with love for God.
Pan M 360: How long does one have to study on average to be properly trained in this art?
Abu Muhammad: In the family tradition, the children of the family are taught the songs when they are very young, so they grow up in this atmosphere. For people who come from outside, it takes at least six or seven years to get the basics right.
Pan M 360: An artist should know at least how many pieces to be recognized as adequate and respected?
Abu Muhammad: In general, if an artist masters a hundred pieces, he is capable of giving concerts. He should be able to sing poems of about twenty Sufi saints to be recognized.
Pan M 360: You studied in the Qawwal Bachon ka gharana in Delhi, a famous and prestigious school. The most famous of its nationals in the West is Nusrat Fateh Ali Khan. Why is this gharana so prolific in great musicians?
Abu Muhammad: The founder of Qawwali, Amir Khusrao, gathered a dozen children seven hundred years ago to sing Qawwali, a simplified form of Samah. The leader of this group of children was Samat Bin Ibrahim, the ancestor of my family. In this gharana, there is a lot of emphasis on Indian classical music. Anyone who wants to sing Qawwali must first study classical music well, learn several ragas and only then can he learn the texts of Qawwali songs. It is this foundation that contributes to the quality of the musicians.
Pan M 360: Is the influence of Nusrat Fateh Ali Khan noticeable in the teaching of this gharana today? In what way?
Abu Muhammad: I don’t think Nusrat Fateh Ali Khan really represented the traditions of our gharana. He was certainly a great singer, but he gained popularity by employing fusion techniques that were not of our gharana.
Pan M 360: How is the Qawwali of today different from that of the past? Is there a noticeable evolution in the way it is played, or is the tradition still much the same as it was 2, 5, or 7 centuries ago?
Abu Muhammad: In the time of Amir Khusrau, the accompanying instruments were the sitar and the tabla. Later, the harmonium and the dholak (a percussion instrument) were introduced. These days (for example in the sessions of Coke Studio, a very popular music program in Pakistan) instruments like the guitar, piano, drums, etc. are used. For the past hundred years, there has also been the influence of Bollywood which has caused distortions in Qawwali. We believe that Qawwali should lead us to peace and spirituality. It is not for the mundane entertainment of people devoid of love and devotion to God.
Pan M 360: What do you like to bring to Qawwali that is not brought by your colleagues?
Abu Muhammad: When we sing, we take a lot of time to explain the meaning of our songs. Even children can understand the content. I don’t think our colleagues do that. We also value the classical music part as roots of Qawwali music.
At the occasion of MTL Night Summit 2023, we are interviewing Will Straw, professor of Media Studies at McGill University, a renowned expert in the academic field of we call night studies. As a dedicated scholar and board member of MTL 24/24, Straw sheds light on the evolution of the organization, the significance of night studies as a burgeoning field, and the historical context of Montreal’s vibrant nightlife. Join PAN M 360 as we explore the interplay between music, scenes, policies, and the vision for the future of Montreal’s night culture.
PAN M 360: You have been involved with MTL 24/24 since the beginning. How did you take part in this project?
Will Straw: I met Mathieu Grondin, the director of MTL 24/24, a couple of years before the pandemic. He knew that I had written about the night, so I was excited to join and now I’m a board member. It has been an incredible experience to witness the organization’s growth from producing events like MTL au Sommet de la nuit to gaining international recognition.
PAN M 360: You work in the field of night studies. What does that entail?
Will Straw: People have always been interested in the night since it exists, and there have been books and studies about it. However, in the last decade or so, there has been a significant increase in research about the night in various languages like English, French, Italian or Spanish and we begin to refer to each other. Anthropologists refer to historians, who refer to economists, who refer to sociologists and so on, and a community has developed. This year, we will have the third international conference on night studies. It’s an exciting and relatively new field.
PAN M 360: Is the field of night studies well-developed in Canada?
Will Straw: There are people in Canada working in this field, especially on the West Coast. Montreal has become a hub, not just because I live here, but also because of the presence of scholars at McGill University, Concordia University and UQAM. We collaborate, host events together, and have formed a strong night studies community in Canada.
PAN M 360: You also have an interest in the historical aspect of Montreal nightlife. Can we identify a “golden age” of nightlife in the city?
Will Straw: People tend to consider the time just before they arrived as the golden age. Some may regard the 1940s as a golden age, despite the issues of racism, police repression, and corruption. The 1960s, with the EXPO 67 World’s Fair, saw an expansion of go-go clubs and discotheques, particularly around Crescent Street and Stanley Street. In the 1970s, Montreal was considered the second biggest disco city in the world. There have been many golden ages, and I hope we are currently in a period where nightlife is more open, accessible, equitable, recognized, and tolerated by the government.
PAN M 360: How is music linked to the night?
Will Straw: : It is interesting, and I realized when I tell the story of nightlife, I’m referring to music and nightclubs because those are the institutions we typically associate it with. There are other people who will talk about a golden age of Montreal theater, for example, I don’t know what years those would be, and that would be nightlife. Others will talk about the golden age of the restaurants where you danced, and so on. But you know, so many of us, we tend to tell the history as scenes and that may be just our biases, but I think it is true as well that music is perhaps the most recognized form of nightlife.
PAN M 360: You have extensively studied scenes as a researcher. How would you define a scene?
Will Straw: The concept of a scene has been used by journalists and others, I didn’t come up with it. A scene refers to informal social organizations. It’s not like a formal club with membership cards but it’s a space where there’s a free fluid association of people who are both producing things like music, food, etc. but also engaged in a kind of sociability, they hang out, they gossip… then you have a scene. Those of us who use the term of the scene prefer it to something like subculture or something like community, which is maybe a bit old fashioned. There are all kinds of scenes. I remember going to bars and you see all these high school teachers hanging out after work, well, that’s a scene. Whenever a kind of supplement of sociability here attaches itself to an activity, then you have a scene.
PAN M 360: The existence and development of scenes are highly influenced by the legal framework and policies. How can we make progress in this area?
Will Straw: Some say that Montreal lacks a nightlife policy, but in reality, there has been a policy for the past 100 years. However, it has often involved police shutting down places or accepting bribes. Nightlife has historically been seen as something to control and repress. LGBTQ+ communities have fought for the right to be out at night, and there have been struggles for fans of certain music genres. To make progress we need to first convince the city that the night has economic value in terms of tourism and consumption. We must advocate for the right to occupy the night as citizens. This includes addressing issues like noise and ensuring the safety of people who go out at night, as well as improving access to transportation. The city should see its responsibility in supporting and nurturing the night as part of its duty to its citizens. It’s not just about party-goers; it’s about the people who work in hospitals, bakeries, and factories that operate at night.
PAN M 360: How does MTL 24/24 contribute to creating momentum around Montreal nightlife?
Will Straw: Groups like MTL 24/24 play a crucial role in creating momentum for several reasons. Firstly, they bring together people who work in the night industry, who often don’t have the opportunity to connect with each other. By recognizing their contributions and status, they create a political presence. Secondly, cities worldwide are recognizing the importance of nightlife and implementing policies accordingly. Montreal doesn’t want to be left behind, so there is external pressure for change. The local scene also pushes for progress, driving the momentum further.
PAN M 360: If you could make a wish for the future of Montreal nightlife, what would it be?
Will Straw: As an older person, I may not want to dance until 7 in the morning, but I would like to see improvements. My wish would be to have affordable late-night dining options available for those working during those hours. Additionally, convenient and frequent transportation to get home safely in the middle of the night would be beneficial.
On the American avant-garde music scene involving free improvisation, tenor saxophonist and multi-instrumentalist Zoh Amba is clearly on her rise. She really is! After growing up in a Tennessee that could have confined her to more conventional areas, the 23 year old sensation lived briefly in San Francisco and Boston before moving to New York where she was immediately adopted by the best musicians of the avant-garde scene, starting with John Zorn who produced her album O,Sun, with drummer Joey Baron and bassist Thomas Morgan, on Tzadik Records. Needless to say, her career was launched! Today, she’s expanding her sonic world until Victoriavile where she plays this Thursday with Thomas Morgan, pianist Micah Thomas and drummer Miguel Marcel Russell.
How can a musician of this age blossom so quickly? Neither PAN M 360 nor Zoh Amba can answer this question… The following conversation with her nevertheless provides us with some convincing clues.
PAN M 360 : Where are you based now ?
ZOH AMBA : In New York.
PAN M 360 : You’re from Tennessee, aren’t you?
ZOH AMBA : Yes, from Kingsport.
PAN M 360 : So you must know Big Ears Festival.
ZOH AMBA : Oh, yeah ! I played my first Big Ears concert this year. It’s beautiful. I mean, it was a dream as a kid to play there and experience it.
PAN M 360 : Also. So you’ve been trained in Tennessee as an early saxophone player?
ZOH AMBA : Yeah in a way, but I also trained myself.
PAN M 360 : So what did you study?
ZOH AMBA : My heart! (laughs). This kind of goes on. I played a lot. I still play a lot. I always play a lot. And I’m just trying to find melodies out of what I feel inside my heart. But I was working on it and I didn’t know there was any other thing but that until I left Tennessee, really. But I didn’t know there was this thing. I couldn’t even read music when I entered school for the first time. So it’s been a long journey.
PAN M 360 : So you did build all your language by yourself in a way.
ZOH AMBA : Yeah! In a way I feel like that. But I also believe that each one of us has a little sacred tender soul heart song going on. I think we all got it.
PAN M 360 : You mean your own vocabulary ? Your way?
ZOH AMBA : Yeah, yeah. But in a more abstract sense. I think we all got that little thing inside of us. I did go to the conservatory but that’s not so important.
PAN M 360 : There you learned some useful things, didn’t you ?
ZOH AMBA : Yeah. I learned some things, but I was very stubborn and I dropped out twice. So I didn’t make it through. But I tried, I really tried (laughs)
PAN M 360 : Well, the clue is your own language, your own thing. But also you know, there are so many super virtuosos for any instrument. And also there are creative people like you who build their own very personal language.
ZOH AMBA : Well, my goal is not to be a great saxophone player. I’m just trying to be a great person in my life. I’m trying to just be a vessel to something that you know, is greater than all of us and love that and nurture it and just try to get this tender song inside out all the time is my goal at the most honest place. And of course, I work on my horns as you got to facilitate that, you know, but I’m not trying to be this great saxophone player, just a great person in my own life. And live a beautiful, simple life of joy and try to stay in the sun. I would describe my music as devotional, trying to reach joy and sunshine. I don’t know how else to describe it.
PAN M 360 : Well do you mean that, for example, your live playing and your recording sessions are basically a reflection of a human being rather than a music player ?
ZOH AMBA : Yeah, I’d say so. But I feel like other people who create that type of thing also feel like that also, you know? I play that way, I feel like sunshine is in my body and I feel very happy. The happiest times in my life are in those moments. Then I feel I’m supposed to be where I’m supposed to be.
PAN M 360 : And do you play other instruments? Do you use other tools?
ZOH AMBA : Yeah, I’ve been working on piano. I just played on another record that I finished recording a couple of weeks ago. I also play guitar and I sing some songs. I was playing guitar when I was a child and I had a notebook of all these songs. I even thought I was going to move to Nashville, but the saxophone came into my life. Overall, it’s all the same song, you know.
PAN M 360 : So the bottom line is not necessarily playing saxophone, but making music.
ZOH AMBA : It’s true. So yeah, saxophone, piano, guitar, voice. That’s, that’s the world of my expression.
PAN M 360 : But mainly tenor saxophone.
ZOH AMBA : Yeah. I have started on alto, but I didn’t pursue it. I know, before I touched the alto, I wanted to play tenor. So it took some months before I got the tenor. Yeah, it resonates with me most, it feels beautiful. I don’t love everything about tenor, but it is still my favorite.
PAN M 360 : Of course, you are already a great improviser but how do you compose?
ZOH AMBA : Well. I sit, I play some things , some melodic patterns to the musicians. And then it becomes some of our repertoire. But I can also write some things down. I mean, I’m working on something, then I’m writing down some elements and I show them to my bandmates. I can do some graphic scoring for them if I don’t know how to notate what I’m hearing. I draw these things, and I explain it after. And I have different cues for the ensemble, like meaning, how we end, how we begin, etc. But those cues can be broken at any time. I’m always trying to surprise myself and make my musicans feel surprised too.
So yes it is mostly based on improv, but it’s not just that, and I feel like each one of us in the unit together, have been working on that our entire lives. So it’s much more than just getting together and playing. Also we love each other, we love the sun, and we’re just trying to go there together. Plunge deep baby, here we go.
PAN M 360 : What are you going to play at FIMAV ?
ZOH AMBA : We’re playing my compositions. And just playing our hearts out, plunging deep and pouring our souls together. Loving living together, loving the sun together, playing our hearts out. That’s what this band is.
PAN M 360 : About your colleagues about to come playing with you at FIMAV.
ZOH AMBA : Thomas Morgan means a world to me. I’m so grateful to play with him. Micah is my best friend, he is my brother, sacred and beautiful. Miguel I met him in New York recently, about a year ago. I’m so happy playing music with them. They’re just great. The best musicians !So the relationships have been growing. But you know, I’m a little young, you know, we have a whole life of getting to know each other, you know, so…
PAN M 360 : Yeah, everything’s quite recent.
ZOH AMBA : Yeah. I’m 23 years old. Yeah, I’m grateful. I really understand that, you know, and, but at the end of the day, I’m just grateful to play music every night with people I love and to reach this goal together. You know, I just wanted to play music all the time. And I’m grateful that this is fulfilling that dream of playing great music together all the time. I love touring. I love meeting people. And I’m happy that the music resonates with them deeply. And I’ve just tried to be as open and vulnerable as I can.
Guitarist, improviser and composer, the British Fred Frith is an emblematic figure of the FIMAV, since he regularly performs there since the very beginning. Among the aesthetic leaders of the rock in opposition movement before changing continent, he was a member of mythical formations of the 70s, starting with Henry Cow. His career as an improviser then led him down several stylistic paths, as dozens of albums attest.
Fred Frith is back in a trio + 1 format, surrounded by Jason Hoopes, electric bass and Jordan Glenn, drums, who met in California a decade earlier while teaching at Mills College in Oakland, renowned for its propensity for contemporary and experimental music.
On the Intakt label, two albums testify to this complicity, cohesion and linguistic coherence. The opus entitled Road features saxophonist Lotte Anker and trumpeter Susane Santos Silva. Heike Liss, an internationally renowned visual artist and Fred Frith’s partner, gives this music a visual dimension that makes it a total work.
Fred Frith has lost none of his radicality and promptness, as evidenced by his answers to PAN M 360’s questions.
PAN M 360 : How would you describe the progression of this unit : yourself, Jordan Glenn and Jason Hoopes. Since a few years, you’ve recorded with them and others on Intakt Records.
FRED FRITH : We started playing together about ten years ago. At that time Jason was still playing upright bass, and we were exploring a quieter kind of trio improvisation. At a certain point he switched to the electric bass and it immediately propelled us in quite a different direction. I hear in Jason’s playing a similar relationship to the instrument as Scott LaFaro had with the double bass back in the day, an absolute fearlessness and especially a willingness to use the whole range of the instrument including the upper register. It takes us out of the traditional rock trio territory, and when you add a drummer of Jordan’s unique gifts I feel very excited every time we play, even in rehearsal!
PAN M 360: Since your retirement from Mills College, where are you based? Obviously you are still active and still creating new music.
FRED FRITH: I live in Santa Rosa, California, an hour North of San Francisco.
PAN M 360 : About your artistic link with the excellent Portuguese trumpet player Susanna Santos Silva? How did you meet her, and what have you accomplished together?
FRED FRITH: She participated in a workshop I co-directed with Mark Dresser in Lisbon back in 2011. It was obvious she was a huge talent and we stayed in touch. Since then she has been a part of several different projects of mine—as a soloist in a piece I wrote for the Hessisches Rundfunk Big Band,
in different trios with Chris Cutler and Lotte Anker and Sten Sandell, and more recently as a guest with the trio – our project with Susana and Heike has already toured on the East Coast of the US and in Brazil. Our duo performance at the Mé téo Festival in Mulhouse is now released as a CD on the Rogu’Art label in Paris.
PAN M 360: How has this music evolved since the 2021 recording? Was Lotte Anker supposed to be on that tour or it’s now a different project?
FRED FRITH: We have invited several different guests over the years, not only Susana and Lotte but also Jessica Lurie, Evelyn Davis and Ikue Mori for example. There is no « supposed »—it’s about challenging ourselves continuously. After the pandemic we experimented with notated music, and we may go back to that again, but right now we like working with ideas that don’t have to be written down!
PAN M 360 : What is the core of this ensemble’s quest?
FRED FRITH: Have fun and don’t waste your time…
PAN M 360 : Age doesn’t matter when we listen to your craft. How do you deal with your own playing and style after all those years?
FRED FRITH: Happy to hear that! Not sure what you mean. I don’t « deal with » my playing—I play! I try to stay in the present and be in the moment..
PAN M 360: Also your partner Heike Liss is involved as a visual artist in this tour. Can you give us some hints of her work in that context? And how do you see the blend with this ensemble’s music?
FRED FRITH: We have been collaborating on Drawing Sound for many years. There are two versions. For one Heike is projecting her video material and drawing over it on the computer while we play. For the other, she actually physically draws on, say, a window where we are performing. We’ll do this latter version, for example, in the San Francisco Exploratorium in September. It is not about making a « blend » —it’s about examining the relationship between what we see and what we hear. Since the visual has primacy for humans, it’s usually the case that sound is heard as an accompaniment to what we are experiencing visually. What happens if the opposite is true? Or is it possible to subvert that relationship, to question it spontaneously?
PAN M 360 : After 4 decades of music, you remain loyal with FIMAV. Now, where do you situate this festival on the world map of avant-garde and adventurous music?
FRED FRITH: FIMAV always had a soft spot in my heart because I was there at the very beginning, before the beginning actually. And I regard it as extraordinary that Michel has been able to sustain a festival of this degree of radicality and quality in such a relatively remote location. It requires a very special combination of passion for the music, dogged obstinacy in the face of administrative barriers, and the curiosity to seek out what he doesn’t know. And the ability to assemble and sustain a team to help realize his vision. There are precious few festivals like it. And loyalty is a two-way street!
PAN M 360 : Obviously, this approach was attracting young left field music lovers in the 80’s and the 90’s. And now? What is its audience around the world? Multi generational? Older?
FRED FRITH: That’s an odd question because it implies that there is one approach, or one kind of music, and the whole thing about FIMAV is how it has embraced such a diverse array of sonic approaches, far more than practically any other festival I could name. What makes it attractive is that you will hear things you don’t know and be introduced to fields of action you want to explore further. This is just as true now as it was then, and the audience for all of these kinds of music is absolutely multi-generational, even if a rather small demographic actually makes it to Victoriaville. In fact its influence reaches far beyond the location itself…
PAN M 360 : What will you say about Michel Levasseur, before his retirement? Among other artistic directors around the world, how do you see his own contribution?
FRED FRITH: Like so many others, Michel wanted to hear interesting new music and didn’t want to have to travel in order to do so. So he started the festival to allow that to happen. The fact that it’s still going is testament enough, no? Chapeau!
PAN M 360: In Tennessee, Big Ears festival artistic director once told me that FIMAV has been an early inspiration. How do you see the development of those festivals and recording labels during your career? Where are we now?FRED FRITH: FIMAV | Music Unlimited in Wels, Austria |Banlieues Bleues and Sons d’Hiver in Paris |Musique Action in Nancy |Other Minds in San Francisco | Taktlos and Unerhört in Zü rich. These and a few others are beacons of light and hope in my world. Without their support I would not be where I am.
On May 24, the Philip Glass Ensemble (without Philip Glass) will present Explorations in Theater and Film, a panorama of music for stage and screen by the famous “minimalist” composer, aged 86, at Bourgie Hall within the Montreal Museum of Fine Arts. For the occasion, music lovers will be treated to a first: the Canadian premiere of a work lost for nearly 50 years and rediscovered in 2017, Music in Eight Parts.
We took the opportunity to speak with Michael Riesman, a loyal friend and unwavering advocate of Glass’ music. All sorts of topics were on the table: the resurrected piece, of course, but also minimalism, contemporary music and Philip’s latest news. Here are some excerpts.
Pan M 360: Hello Mr. Riesman. What is this story about a score that was lost for almost 50 years and then recently found? How is that possible in this day and age?
Michael Riesman: I don’t know all the details, but I think that at some point Philip must have sold that score to make a few bucks (at the time, we’re talking about the 1960s, he had to survive as best he could), but hadn’t made a copy. Then time passed and its trace was lost. It resurfaced in 2017 in an auction at Christie’s! We asked permission to make photocopies, and now it is available. We are playing it on this Explorations in Theater and Film tour, and Montreal will have the privilege of being the first city in Canada where it will be performed.
Pan M 360: Tell me about the piece itself…
Michael Riesman: It’s really in the style of Philip’s early days. At that time, he didn’t compose for a specific list of instruments. He was willing to arrange his scores for whomever would play them! So, one of the only times it was performed, there was, I think, a viola, a cello, a saxophone, some portable organs, and even a clavinet, as in Stevie Wonder’s Superstition! But really, it can be orchestrated in many ways. That’s what I did, and I wanted to modernize it a bit, with Philip’s agreement.
Pan M 360: So how did you “modernize” it?
Michael Riesman: Since this piece was written before the ensemble was formed, I immediately adapted it for our specific formation. So I added voice and winds, of course. That’s the first thing. I also adapted the music itself in two ways: first, by speeding up the tempo a little bit after the first half. Over the years, our ensemble has become accustomed to pushing the tempos. We were slower in the beginning. A sign of the times, perhaps, always more energy. Then, the second strictly musical feature was the addition of more bass towards the ⅔ of the piece and the arrival of jazzy tones. This is how I envisioned the update of Music in Eight Parts, a piece that was never intended to be played in one way, meaning the first.
Pan M 360: So you took a lot of liberty?
Michael Riesman: Yes, indeed. I feel quite free to do that, because a few years ago I did the same thing for a concert with Music with Changing Parts, at the request of Philip himself. We added brass, a girls’ choir, and a lot of other things. Philip is in complete agreement. He never wanted his music to become fixed. For Music in Eight Parts, he heard the version we’re going to play in Montreal, and he likes it.
Pan M 360: You are in regular contact with him?
Michael Riesman: I just saw him last night! We went to a concert of William Bolcom’s music, played by Dennis Russel Davies.
Pan M 360: You’re in a good position to tell us what changed the most in his music then…
Michael Riesman: He started by stripping the music down as much as possible. Those early pieces are radically minimalist, and rarely played. One of them is just a sound line, a drone without any ornamentation, no rhythm, nothing. Today, his works have nothing to do with minimalism! It was a process you know. After the initial radicalism, where could he go? So he started to reintroduce rhythm, then harmony, then melody, counterpoint. But still keeping his signature fetish, the arpeggios, the rhythmic figures like ta-taa ta-ta-taa, etc. It is as if he had brought the music back to its sonic starting point, then went back the other way by reintroducing “classical” and “romantic” elements.
Pan M 360: You’ve been with him all this time. Why did he take this path?
Michael Riesman: Initially, the minimalist movement (and I can also talk about Steve Reich, or Terry Riley) was a reaction against what they called the dead-end of the European modern school, Twelve-tone, serialism, etc. We were losing the audience! Music must be inviting. All this dissonance, this sonic ruggedness, where could we go from there? Philip said, “OK, let’s go back to the base. But further than the base, it’s not necessarily the basement, it’s also going upwards, with new concepts.
Pan M 360: After 50 years, you still enjoy playing his music?
Michael Riesman: Of course! But you know, it’s not a full time job. I do a lot of other things. And we rarely tour for more than two or three weeks. So when I come back to it, I’m always like, “Wow, this is still fun!’’
Pan M 360: Is he still writing?
Michael Riesman: He’s working on a Symphony No. 15, but it’s getting harder for him to concentrate on that kind of exercise. Otherwise, he writes a few small piano pieces from time to time. He still goes out though, to see things (like yesterday with me). But of course, time is moving on for him too…
Pan M 360: Are you an observer of the contemporary scene? What do you think about it?
Michael Riesman: I think it’s good now that the wall of rigid academicism has been broken down. Composers are much freer to write what they want. But, maybe it’s because I’m getting old (lol), I don’t hear a lot of stuff I really like… You’re more likely to meet me at an avant-garde jazz or indie pop concert.
Pan M 360: Thank you and I look forward to seeing and hearing you on May 24th!
Michael Riesman: It will be a great pleasure to come back to Montreal, a great audience, and especially to play for the first time in Bourgie Hall.
This week Montreal will be vibrating to the rhythm of two major events for the artistic and cultural nightlife scene: MTL Night Summit on May 17th and 18th at the PHI Center and NON STOP 24/24 from May 19th to 21th at the Pavillon du Grand Quai of the Port of Montreal.
The former will be of interest to the curious who wish to learn more about nightlife cultures and the international initiatives that support their development. Guests will include Burning Man co-founder $teven Ra$pa, former Amsterdam night mayor Mirik Milan and renowned night studies researchers Luc Gwiazdzinski and Will Straw. Several activities are free, including two documentary screenings, on Detroit techno and on Montreal by night. The Summit is also marked by the presentation of the Creative Footprint Montreal study, produced by VibeLab and Penn Praxis.
The NON STOP event will delight fans of electronic music, with 36 hours of non-stop music. Headlining: the “First Lady of Wax” DJ Minx, the ambassador of high energy techno VTSS, and the excellent Jacques Greene. They will be accompanied by a well-stocked local set with dileta, Lis Dalton, GLOWZI, Lia Plutonic, or Ramzilla. A free outdoor scene will be accessible Saturday during the day, Place des commencements.
A few hours before the kick-off of the 2023 edition of MTL Night Summit, PAN M 360 met with Diana Raiselis, lead researcher of Montreal’s Creative Footprint study, to discuss the results of this year-long fieldwork.
PAN M 360 : What brings you into nighttime research?
Diana Raiselis: I spent the first few years of my professional life in Chicago, working in the theatre scene. I heard about the work of night mayors and nighttime policy around the same time that I saw spaces in Chicago and elsewhere in the US threatened by policy pressures, gentrification, displacement, and other issues—topics that I now work on. From there, I began to realize how urban factors control how much theater, performance, and music club cultures exist in a city. I have a double background in theater as well as public policy, and urban affairs, which brought me to Berlin to look at what the Berlin Clubcommission was doing, as part of a research fellowship. I thought it would last maybe a year and a half. Four years later, I’m still there.
PAN M 360: What do you do today in Berlin?
Diana Raiselis: I wear several different hats. I freelance with various organizations, but as one of those hats I’m the research lead for VibeLab, a purpose-driven consultancy focused on nighttime, nightlife, and the cultural industries; based in Berlin, Amsterdam and Sydney. So VibeLab produces the Creative Footprint research project in collaboration with cities and civic nighttime advocacy organisations. I’m happy this fifth edition, Creative Footprint Montréal, is out today!
PAN M 360: Can you tell us more about the methodology you are using to produce the Creative Footprint?
Diana Raiselis: This data-driven study maps nightlife spaces and communities to understand the cultural strength and impact of a city’s music and nightlife ecosystem. This report works qualitatively, quantitatively, and with geographic and spatial data to bring all those things together and hopefully get a holistic picture of where nightlife is in the city, and how it interacts with all these various urban factors—cost, transit, policy. Since I also came up as a theater director, for me, alongside data, there is always a need to tell the story. So talking to folks, understanding the challenges that they face, the things that they value the most about their city… that brings the numbers to life, for me.
PAN M 360: How can Creative Footprint help the nightlife advocates?
Diana Raiselis: One of the most significant issues is that nightlife advocates often understand things to be true in their practice and experience, but don’t have data to advocate for what they see. Policymakers often want to see evidence-based data, pilots, and so on. Creative Footprint provides the beginning of a baseline. We use scores here, but it’s not necessarily about comparing cities to say that this one is better or worse than that one. It’s more about, OK in 2023, this is the score. Montreal did very strongly on aspects of Community and Content and Space, and didn’t do nearly as strongly on what we call Framework Conditions, which are policies, transit, access to information, governance, and so on. As Montreal puts this nightlife strategy into place for the next years, that section is where the “score” can be increased.
PAN M 360: You were giving some information about the score for Montreal, can you elaborate on the parameters and indicators you are mobilizing ?
Diana Raiselis: We work with these three different areas: Framework Conditions, which are the “hardware” and “software” that affect how easy or difficult it is to put on nightlife events, create venues, and so on. Community and Content are all the aspects of what’s created in these spaces, how interdisciplinary or multi-use spaces are, how they support community, and their emphasis on creative output. And then Space, we look at more tangible factors of how large venues are, how long they’ve operated, their multiple functions, and how they reach their audiences via social media and other channels.
PAN M 360: What kind of data are you collecting and what are your collecting strategies?
Diana Raiselis: We work closely with an organization called PennPraxis, which an applied research and practice nonprofit attached to the University of Pennsylvania’s Weitzman School of Design. They lead the project’s urban data analytics, for which they’re pulling in census, geographic and other data, then superimposing that data on the information we gather. We create a list of venues as comprehensively as possible. Then we use focus groups and interviews with community members to gather more of their input on these indicators and dive deeper into the dynamics that come up in the city.
PAN M 360: You already talked about the results and were saying Montreal was pretty strong on everything that was connected to the community. What does it mean?
Diana Raiselis: One of the things that stood out to me was that more than half of Montreal’s venues have multiple uses, so in addition to presenting live music, perhaps they’re also functioning as a studio or for visual art or cinema uses. That’s higher than many other cities we’ve looked at. On average, these spaces have more uses too. Those multi-use venues also tended to rate higher on those community and content variables that we spoke about—things like community focus, creative output, and experimentation—suggesting that these spaces can be more resilient, they can reach a broader audience in many ways. Especially when we think about the pandemic, these last years where many venues had to be resourceful or pivot or try out new business models to survive, spaces that can do that well are maybe more robust.
One of the other things that I also found interesting was that folks were telling us that despite these many multi-use venues, people didn’t necessarily feel that there were many clubs. Suppose they want to create an event that runs after 3:00 AM. In that case, they often have to look to rental venues, which require organizers to start from scratch every time, to bring in equipment, and do a lot of setup that wouldn’t necessarily be done in a dedicated space… You know, we often think of those multi-use venues as making for a stronger venue ecosystem. Still, there’s also a real need for dedicated club-type spaces that are big enough with the appropriate set-up, for folks not necessarily to have to start over every time.
GRAPHIC SHOWING OVERALL CREATIVE FOOTPRINT SCORE FOR MONTREAL. EACH SCORE IS OUT OF 10 (Creative Footprint Montreal, VibeLab, 2023, p.29)
PAN M 360: Is there any recommendations or ideas that this study wants to pass to decision-makers?
Diana Raiselis: This is also good timing that this is happening right now because the city is preparing its nightlife strategy for the following years. Our recommendation section in this report is grouped broadly into three big themes: 1) to protect what’s already here. Strengthening policies that allow venues to stay where they are, whether that’s financial support, whether that’s policy support, mediation in neighborhoods, and so on; 2) to build trust. To build stronger relationships between the folks in the scene, folks making decisions, and public safety; 3) to grow. To think about how we can expand not just the space for nightlife, like city-owned areas that could be activated, but also expand the time for nightlife. In the last year, several pilot events have begun to lay that groundwork [for later events], and I think MTL 24/24 did amazing work in making it possible to show that late-night can happen, that there aren’t dire consequences associated with it.
For one example, we suggested reevaluating how soundproofing is approached. A soundproofing fund already exists, but is limited to places holding performance hall licenses. Yet we saw that many important spaces for music might be differently licensed, like bars with a dancefloor. So we need to ensure those spaces are eligible for soundproofing support because they are often near residential buildings, and they experience the same conflicts that a licensed performance hall might have.
So that’s one. Creating a dedicated city liaison is also essential, which takes many different forms in cities worldwide. That person in government must can work closely with folks creating nightlife. And finally, the report recommends looking at the possibility of 24-hour licensing in terms of event permitting and moving towards 24-hour venue concepts. I think what’s also interesting to note is that we saw that Montreal’s nightlife is very concentrated in 4 boroughs. 4 boroughs have 89% of the venues [Le-Plateau Mont-Royal, Ville-Marie, Le Sud-Ouest, Rosemont-La-Petite-Patrie], two of those have 75%, and so working closely with the borough level government can have a lot of impact.
PAN M 360: Yeah, you said you were from the theater, but nightlife is often associated with music, do you have any interest in music ?
Diana Raiselis: Oh, absolutely! Thinking as a director and event producer, I’m fascinated by the immersive worlds inside the electronic music and club culture scene. Fiona Buckland describes “club time” as a time-space without clocks, where you’re able to sort of disappear into this alternate reality. I think this is what so many theatremakers want to be able to create. So when I go out, I’m paying attention to that. The gestures of world-making that happen inside a particular club, from its built environment—is it sort of like a maze, or do you come in and see the whole space—the music… Those aspects all influence the journey throughout the night, as a conversation between the DJ and the crowd.
PAN M 360: And during the fieldwork, did you discover a venue or a place you really liked in Montreal?
Diana Raiselis : We happened to walk into Coup de cœur francophone at Quai des Brumes and l’Escogriffe during a research visit in November 2022—both the acts, and the contrast between these two very different sounds in spaces right next to each other, was something unique. It felt like an absolute joy to discover that.
The author of this interview is also a member of MTL 24/24 Night Council. She wrote this interview as a journalist.
In an overview of Lizée’s career (work from 2001, Jupiter Moon Menace, will be performed alongside an exclusive new creation, Ultraviolet Blues), it will be possible to understand why the music of this composer, who is also fascinated by rock, turntablism and science fiction, is one of the most interesting and even fundamental to have emerged at the beginning of the 21st century.
The syncretism that Lizée manages to create is unparalleled in the musical world and acts like a nuclear fusion reactor in which High and Low cultures are invited. Classical instruments and new lutherie (from the turntable to the old Moog, from non-instruments to the most complex of the European tradition) lose their usual hierarchy, while references to the retro-futurism of vintage science-fiction gain letters of nobility that the guardians of the current temple of so-called serious literature stubbornly refuse to grant it.
I met with Nicole Lizée and discussed her music and many other topics that highlight her fascinating vision of what modernity is in music.
PAN M 360: The concert is called Folk Noir. Why is it called Folk Noir?
Nicole Lizée: It’s the title of a piece I wrote in 2017 for the same ensemble (Collectif9) and Architek, a percussion ensemble. It is emblematic of my interest in associations of unusual terms. Combinations that draw strange landscapes and atmospheres.
PAN M 360: It’s a program that has the air of a retrospective, with a piece from your early days and a very recent creation…
Nicole Lizée: Yes, but with an emphasis on the trippy (psychedelic?) aspect of my work. These are pieces in which the origin of the sounds is not assured. Acoustic instruments, electro, tapes, everything mixes together and disturbs the listener’s sense of sound orientation.
PAN M 360: About this new piece, called Ultraviolet Blues, what can you tell us about it?
Nicole Lizée: It’s a tribute to the Blacklight Poster, a psychedelic art form that emerged in the 1960s in the United States. Posters were printed with ink that fluoresced under black light (an ultraviolet reaction). Sonically, the piece does not reference stereotypical or preexisting elements of the sound of psychedelia. There are no quotes of existing music. It is my sonic interpretation of blacklight art as it exists in the 21st century: ‘post-blacklight.’ The sound world is highly rhythmic, but the grooves stretch and splinter, sometimes disintegrating. The fluorescence, vibrations, and textural fuzziness in the artwork is depicted through a number of sonic techniques. As is the energy, euphoria, and the notions of darkness.
Melodies (including a main theme) move to the forefront and begin to melt. The is a melancholic component to it all, referencing the notion that this artistic movement experienced a number of deaths: the first was its commodification in the late 1960s/early 1970s. The mainstream saw it as a way to make money but only after tampering with (i.e. censoring) and ultimately, softening, the subject matter considerably, rendering it meaningless (simply functioning as eye candy). There was a period when artists and poster collectors saw it as a means of expression: politically, etc.
After a resurgence in the 1980s – which began again as a way to express the counterculture of the period, with its highly evocative design – the blacklight poster phenomenon largely fizzled out. Now it joins other art forms that don’t exist anymore due to the death of print and other factors.
The blacklight poster was actually a medium capable of mimicking the effects of (a) new wonder drug. With the ability to glow and vibrate under ultraviolet light, the posters could simulate the sensations and visual distortions one experienced during an acid trip.
Daniel Donahue, counterculture historian
Eyeball Psychedelic Black Light Poster Company: Vagabond Creations Dayton, Ohio – 1970Beatles All You Need Is Love Black Light Poster – 1969Vintage Jimi Hendrix Music Blacklight Poster by Joe Roberts Jr, 1968
PAN M 360: How has your almost 25-year musical career evolved?
Nicole Lizée: I realize that while my subjective foundations remain the same, the desire to go beyond traditional notation has become more pronounced. I want to evoke all sorts of unusual panoramas and impressions in my music, but I find that traditional notation (clefs, barlines, staves, etc.) does not allow me to explain to musicians what I really want to create. In my most recent scores, the system totally falls apart! And it works fine.
PAN M 360: But it still involves a lot of communication with the performers, if you want to be well understood since your system is not standard and its references may not be known by the instrumentalists.
Nicole Lizée: Yes, of course. That’s the beauty of working in contemporary music.
PAN M 360: How tight are you with your colleagues? Does their initial understanding of your scores ever take you elsewhere, and transform the nature of the piece? Do you let it happen? And when, in the future, new people appropriate your music and try to decode your inscriptions, is it possible that they will make conclusions that are totally alien to your aspirations, absurd even?
Nicole Lizée: Yes, there is that. But as far as my work with musicians is concerned, it’s a give and take. Of course, I have a precise conception of what I want to project into the sound space, but the musicians have to absorb the music too. That’s a great thing! There are so many things I can’t put on paper, so if the musicians allow me to express it with their understanding of what I’m writing, that’s great! Anyway, the page is just the beginning of the process.
PAN M 360: You grew up surrounded by popular culture. How did you come to dive into the very serious world of contemporary music?
Nicole Lizée: First of all, in all these years, I never knew what “contemporary music” was. I was always interested in sounds, in originality, and in non-conformism. I had several phases that I would describe as obsessive. I would dive totally into one musical universe, before moving on to another, and so on. I started with New Wave, but then I needed something else and that was Metal, which I explored further and further by going deeper and deeper into “hardness”, lol. Then, again, I craved something else, and that was Kate Bush, Sonic Youth, and the Manchester sound. I had my hip-hop phase and one day I wanted to learn, to know more, and most of all to be officially a composer. I came to McGill and was shocked to hear that “classical” music also had its avant-garde. But there was never any clear notion in my mind of a difference between different types of avant-garde.
PAN M 360: Was there any resistance to your musical fusion in the community?
Nicole Lizée: I can’t say that there wasn’t. For example, when I wanted to write my Turntable Concerto, of course, people asked me where I was going with it. But on the other hand, there was also a lot of enthusiasm! I remember one day I had just finished writing it, exhausted after weeks of hard work, and I was talking to some friends. I said “I’ve finished, but I don’t know how I’m going to find someone to play it” and at that moment, like in a slow-motion scene in a movie, a colleague turns to another, points and slowly says “Why not Paolo?’’ He was a trumpet player but also a DJ. I asked Paolo “Do you want to play my concerto?” and he just said, “Yeah, sure.” Then the conductor doubted whether a DJ could survive such a precise performance as a contemporary creation. We went to rehearsal once at his place, and Paolo nailed it perfectly! The conductor was convinced, and it worked. So yes, a little resistance, but not bad faith. Given the facts and the quality of the product, everyone got on board. And it’s been going on ever since. I love integrating obsolete machines with unique sounds in a context of rigorous interpretation. To me, these are legitimate instruments, like an oboe or a clarinet.
PAN M 360: Is there a dream project that you haven’t realized yet?
Nicole Lizée: Recently, I wrote an opera, a medium I didn’t even consider just a few years ago (RUR: A Torrent of Light, based on a 1920 play by Karel Čapek, a science fiction pioneer. It was in this text that the word robot was first used. The premiere took place at the Tapestry Opera in Toronto – NDLR). But in the future, I must admit that I would like to direct a feature film and compose the music for it. A fully integrated work, where the image is intrinsically dependent on the music and sound, not the other way around.
PAN M 360: A bit like John Carpenter or Godfrey Reggio’s films set to Philip Glass’ music…
Nicole Lizée: Yes. I like Carpenter a lot, even if his music is relatively uncomplicated, the fact that a single head has thought about the link between image and sound/music is a fascinating aspect of creative perspectives.
PAN M 360: Are you a fan of science fiction?
Nicole Lizée: Yes, but specifically from the 1960s or so. I love retro-futurism, the kind that is no longer relevant because it is beyond its intended time frame. Nevertheless, it was in those years that the future was written! It goes hand in hand with my fascination for obsolete machines, old synths, modulators, outdated electronics, etc.
PAN M 360: Has the time for science fiction as a subject of inspiration finally come to the world of contemporary music-making?
Nicole Lizée: Yes, I think so. The opera on Čapek’s play that I wrote is an example. There are so many beautiful stories, magnificent subjects, characters, places, and situations from which a whole universe of meaning is invited, and through which we can commune in a reflection on our own world!
PAN M 360: Just like the myths of ancient Greece and Rome that have nourished us for more than two millennia!
Nicole Lizée: Yes, absolutely.
PAN M 360: You might be curious to hear an opera based in the Star Trek universe, and sung in Klingon (a language invented and associated with one of the main alien races of the Trek world)!
Nicole Lizée: Wow! I’m definitely going to look that up.
PAN M 360: Finally, five quick questions, quick answers, as many as possible. Challenges with hard choices. Shall we go?
Nicole Lizée: Sure!
PAN M 360: AI (Artificial Intelligence): threat or opportunity?
Nicole Lizée: Strong both. I have strong feelings, but divergent ones. Yes, a threat in the short term, for sure. But in the long run? Will we find a way to deal with it, and do something new? Possibly.
PAN M 360: Dodecaphonism/serialism: dead or still alive?
Nicole Lizée: Mmmm, dead is too strong a term. I would say: History
PAN M 360: Women in contemporary composition (musically speaking, only. I’m not talking about the social and societal aspect of it, of course): revolution or “business as usual”?
Nicole Lizée :… (Long silence)… I would say revolution because the subjects and the stories can only be personal, and thus dictate the color of the music itself. As the subjects and stories, from a non-male perspective (I avoid binarity), will be unique to being female or queer or non-binary, etc., this will inevitably give a unique narrative, with its musical corollary. That said, I hesitated to choose revolution because it is not over! It is underway, but far from having reached its optimal and final bloom.
PAN M 360: Turntables in contemporary music: flavor of the day or new sustainable lutherie?
Nicole Lizée: I love this instrument and I’ve been convinced of its legitimacy for a long time, so I would say it’s sustainable. But I see that it can become the flavor of the day when you start putting it everywhere just to check a box, or sell tickets without thinking about the real depth of the offer.
PAN M 360: If you had to choose with whom to spend your time on a desert island talking about music: Pierre Boulez or Philip Glass?
Nicole Lizée: Oh, that’s the hardest one! What a crazy question, I love it! Ok, you know what, I would choose… Mmmm, no…. Aaaaarrrrgh! I can’t say I’ve listened to much Boulez, but as much as I love the early Glass, the psychedelic Glass, I don’t like everything either. I don’t know. I think I’d like to invite them both to my table at the same time. What an exchange that would be!
PAN M 360: They are symbols of the fundamental opposition of our time in contemporary music. A bit like the Brahms vs Wagner camps in the 19th century…
Nicole Lizée: Exactly. Yes, a meal with both at the same time would be very entertaining!
GoGo Penguin has been captivating audiences with their innovative and eclectic sound since they first formed in 2009. Citing a diverse range of influences, the trio’s music defies easy categorization but consistently makes for an enthralling experience.
Everything is Going To Be OK, the group’s sixth album, sees the band coming to terms with the departure of longtime drummer, Rob Turner, and personal losses in the families of bassist Nick Blacka and pianist Chris Illingworth. However, the band find a worthy replacement in drummer Jon Scott and Everything is Going to be OK serves as an optimistic gesture and a reassurance to fans that the band remain inspired, and are here to stay.
Chris took the time from his hotel room in Portland to discuss the latest record, their current tour, and more than 10 years of GoGo Penguin.
PAN M 360: First of all congratulations on the album Chris. You’re touring it now. How are you finding it so far? How do you feel the new material is being received?
Chris: Oh fantastic. I think we’ve done five shows so far and a little radio spot in Seattle as well the other day. It’s been great, really fun playing the new stuff, I feel like it’s been a while since we went out on tour and played a lot of brand new material like this. But we’ve obviously got a lot of the differences with the setup now. We’ve got synths and we’ve got more effects and there’s still that core acoustic thing there, but there are a lot of things that we’ve had to incorporate to be able to play the music live. So it’s been really exciting, if a bit nerve wracking, going on stage when there’s a lot more that could go wrong than just having a piano, bass and drums on stage. But it’s been great. The crowds have been good, really nice venues. It’s nice to be feeling like we’ve still got energy. Wish we didn’t have to fly though.
PAN M 360: Is it fair to say then that this is GoGo Penguin’s ‘electronica’ album?
Chris: Yeah,it’s an interesting question, it is technically, but the approach we’ve used and the style of composition don’t actually feel too electronic. Those elements are there and we’ve got things like the Strega, which is just an incredible sounding instrument, but it’s used more on the processing side of things. The acoustic instruments are still there and you can still hear in “Last Breath” as an example, it’s the double bass that’s going through it, but it’s what the Strega adds to the bass that takes a new shape. On the modular side of things, the main one that I’m using is called Rings, and it’s beautiful. It sounds like some kind of percussion plucked instrument, and when I do the kind of muting thing on the piano, it’s already not miles away from those kinds of sounds.
I was listening to electronic music before I was listening to most other kinds of music, other than probably classical and some rock music that my mom listened to. There’s always been that thing of wanting to play with synths and electronics and effects just because I was blown away by what bands like Underworld, Prodigy and Massive Attack were able to do with them.
With GoGo Penguin it never felt like that opportunity was there in a kind of perfect ‘this is going to work’ way. This time, Nick and I, we just got back in the studio and we were like, ‘You know what?., Let’s just get everything out and just play. Let’s just have some fun and just see what happens.’ And if it doesn’t work, it doesn’t work. There wasn’t any fear there.
We tried a lot of things that didn’t work. We cut out a lot of different synths because we just thought, these don’t feel right. We had some sequencers that we were playing around with and it just didn’t feel like the right approach for the compositions. But the things that we kept, it felt like they found their places within the instruments.
PAN M 360: Now that the band has been playing for well over a decade, you must be finding yourselves playing to a new generation of fans. Would you say much has changed with regards to the concert experience, or perhaps in the way people relate to music, especially instrumental music these days?
Chris: Well we’ve been chatting with quite a few people on this tour already about it, it’s still that very diverse, mixed audience we attract. There’s a lot of people, young and old, from different kinds of tastes of music and backgrounds and everything, and it just feels like that’s continuing. I think there’s probably the fans that are sticking with us, that like us, got a bit older, and then there’s this younger crowd coming in as well.
It feels very much like a lot of the younger listeners don’t seem to be concerned with genres and boundaries. It’s not so much a thing of is it jazz? Isn’t it jazz? Is it this, is it that? Check it out on Spotify or YouTube or whatever and make your mind up if you like it and come and see the show.
We really love that the music seems to speak to a lot of different people. It means a lot to us. We never want the music to be just for a particular kind of person, we want it to be that anybody can listen to it and then decide if they like it or not.
PAN M 360: Part of the charm of GoGo Penguin is that the band can play at a rock, jazz, or electronic festival, and fit the bill. How do you explain GoGo Penguin?
Chris: It’s such a tough one. Yeah, I honestly don’t know. I want to just say it’s just a band playing instrumental music, but that’s so vague and doesn’t really describe anything. The thing that we’re wanting to do with all of it, that we’ve always wanted to do is try and connect with people just by telling them stories. But you keep them abstract enough that everyone can listen to it and read something into it and it’s what we want. And I think then that means that we have to draw from everywhere.
PAN M 360: I remember living in the UK and seeing that first wave of jazz-inspired rock/electronica/instrumental outfits emerge sometime in the early 2010’s. A lot of what came out on Gondwana helped establish that ‘post-jazz’ sound, I called it ‘Radiohead Jazz’ back then, ha. Would you say that sound has become somewhat saturated now?
Chris: I don’t know. I mean, I think there are people who are taking those elements because it’s the way things always tend to go. Some people will do it because they see that it’s worked and they’ll have a go. But I think there are some people, Mammal Hands and Floating Points are great examples, where it’s still very individual. It’s not like a copy of a copy. And it’s the same with us. I think there are a lot of people kind of doing that, but I think the great ones do it with their own individuality, and that’s what really makes it stand out.
PAN M 360: What do you think makes Everything is Going to be OK feel like such a singular release in your discography.
Chris: I think really it’s the first time where we’ve been far more open. Right from the beginning with the press release, with everything really, the artwork even, had that feeling of let’s be as open as possible. Not trying to be too cryptic, not trying to use minimalist illustrations on the front that don’t really make you think of something immediate. We were like, let’s just be honest. Let’s just tell people. Let’s say what we’ve been through and say what this is all about, because obviously it’s got to be a personal thing because we made the record, but we made it for everybody who wants to listen to it. And all of these things that we’ve experienced, they’re not exclusive to us. These are things that everybody goes through, and it’s just that we’ve gone through that point in our lives where it’s like the spotlight has been put on that experience of you’re going to start losing people because we all get older and that’s what happens.
Of course it was our first album after Rob left, but he was just one part of the band. The bond ended up strengthening between Nick and myself. We’ve been friends for a long time and we worked together for a long time, but it was great to see things like the way he opened up and was able to contribute so much more than I think he’s ever done in the past. I don’t think he’d mind me saying that. Of course he’s always contributed, he’s always been a part of it, he’s always had ideas, but it felt like some sort of weight had been lifted where he was suddenly able to bring so much more to the table. And in turn, that’s a really exciting thing for me to have to react to and it was nice to be on the back foot listening to these ideas that Nick’s bringing and going, okay, how do I react to that? Where do I fit in with that?
With the recording process we were able to say in a way that felt natural that we’re still us, we’re not trying to change who we are, but we’ve changed as people. We’ve grown like everybody does.
PAN M 360: What was your approach to incorporating Jon as part of the trio?
Chris: He’s really fitting the touring well. He’s a great character to have with us. Like we said right from the beginning, we didn’t want a copy. We wanted somebody individual. We didn’t want to just try and replace Rob. It was important that drums are an essential part of the sound of GoGo Penguin, but we wanted it to be somebody with their own personality joining us. John’s done that and fair play to the guy. I mean, it’s not going to be easy to step into something that’s got all that history and all of that kind of foundations that we’ve built. It must have been a challenge, but he’s really stepped up and done a fantastic job.
PAN M 360: What might we expect from GoGo Penguin in the time to come?
Chris: Well, I think as soon as we can we definitely want to get back in the studio. There are ideas bubbling away. We keep sketching things and we were having beers in the hotel bar just last night chatting ideas. There’s definitely going to be some stuff along the way but at the minute, I think we’re just enjoying touring. It feels nice to have this album. It still feels kind of fresh because it was a while ago that we recorded it. We’ve got Japan coming up again, and we haven’t been there for a while, so that’s going to be fun. Some talk about Australia and New Zealand, where we’ve never been. Hopefully a lot of good things will come.
This Thursday, Indie Rootz Records will present an entire and unique, all-female sung rendition of Pink Floyd’s The Dark Side of The Moon. The project is titled The Dark Side of Venus, a modern rock, and at times, RnB, remake of the classic Floyd album, featuring the Montreal-based trio of Bella Forte, NeeNee Knightly, & SLM, as well as Prestige from Woodstock, Ontario.
The project was inspired by Brian Kotler, who recently lost his sister, Donna, to Ovarian Cancer. Brian has fond memories of playing Pink Floyd around the house, somewhat forcing his sister to experience the band with him. The two even went to the Pink Floyd’s mythic show together back in 1994 in Montreal at the Big O.
The Dark Side of Venus was created in memory of Brian’s sister, but the launch event will raise funds for the Ovarian Cancer Society of Canada in the week of International Ovarian Cancer Day. We spoke with Brian a few days before the launch event about what Pink Floyd meant to his sister and him.
PAN M 360: So you were kind of the older brother who showed Donna Pink Floyd?
Brian Kotler: Yeah, I was the older big brother and I was a little bit of a terrorist. I used to play Pink Floyd and I used to have a locking stereo cabinet. You don’t want your younger sister to be messing around with your records, y’know. So I used to play Pink Floyd and lock the cabinet and just let it play. I guess I was the tormentor. And, now, ever since she passed away, it’s like, she’s the one that’s tormenting me. The purpose of this show is a tribute to her, and to get a little bit of closure. I mean I must have played the album a million times in her years.
PAN M 360: When did you come up with the idea to do a tribute album and show? Around her passing?
Brian Kotler: Literally ever since I got into music, doing the cover of Dark Side of the Moon was always on my bucket list. I never really explored it too hard. I started putting the wheels in motion to get to do the album a couple of months before she died. She was already with cancer already. But the tribute just came, that whole idea came afterward. I mean, I just figured that everything would be kind of perfect, like a complete circle.
PAN M 360: How did you go about finding the singers on the album?
Brian Kotler: One I knew very well. I worked with her before, and her name is Prestige. And she lives in Woodstock, Ontario. I’ve worked with her in the past. I’ve had recommendations from some of the others where I asked around because normally, we normally did a lot of reggae. And generally, reggae artists don’t really vibe to Pink Floyd. It’s, it’s like acid and water. Even my partner, I came up with a lot of the ideas. But my partner Bobby, he actually is the musician that played every single instrument on every single track.
PAN M 360: That must have taken forever.
Brian Kotler: Yeah. And so, for example, like maybe on the song “Money,” there might be like seven or eight guitar tracks on there, the drums, the keyboard, the bass—he played them all everywhere. And he hates Pink Floyd. I mean, the thing is, I wouldn’t say he hated Pink Floyd, but he didn’t care for Pink Floyd, he kind of just didn’t like them. But then having to hear the songs over and over and over and over again, and then play back what they did. I mean, it just made him hate it. And he’ll be quite blunt and say, the main reason he did it was for my sister too, because he knows how the whole loss affected me. It kind of carried him on to doing it and finishing it.
PAN M 360: What was it about Dark Side of the Moon, that specific Pink Floyd album, or just that band, that made you play them constantly?
Brian Kotler: To tell you the truth, I really don’t know. I just seemed to gravitate towards that. I could listen to Pink Floyd today, especially Dark Side of the Moon, and get and get taken away. It’s almost as if I’m getting high without taking the drugs. It really carries me away. It was something that I could just relate to in many different ways. I’d say it’s almost a spiritual connection that I had for that type of music.
Brian & Donna Kotler in their ’80s goth phase / photo coutesy of Brian Kotler
PAN M 360: And on this new covers, tribute record, some of the lyrics are more updated to reflect these times?
Brian Kotler: Yes. I wanted to update it because you know, it’s no longer ’73. We’re in 2023, and for lack of a better word, a lot of shit is going on in this world that really needs to be addressed. Like for “The Great Gig in the Sky,” which is like an opera song—which I have an opera singer singing, and she happens to have a doctor’s degree—it’s about the right to death. And if you listen to the ad-libs on it, or the news bites, actually, it’s dealing with people that have cancer, and they’re coming to the end of their life; they’re in pain and they want to die. They want to die with dignity, they want to die on their terms.
And even for my sister, she actually wanted to go through that too. But unfortunately, by the time they wanted to give her the paperwork. She was already too drugged out on morphine and she wasn’t able to sign the papers. And I could tell you, you’d walk into the little on the floor on the hospital wing and you could hear a bawling, “I want to die I want to die, I can take the pain no more now.” That’s … It’s almost surreal. I mean, it’s your it’s your own sister. And she’s almost begging to die. And then once she passes through, it’s almost like a relief. I mean, knowing that, she wanted to die. It’s a really, really, really wicked roller coaster ride that you go through during those times. So I just felt that those ad-libs there are so relatable.
PAN M 360: Bringing up “Money” again, SLM really adds a kind of RnB, hip-hop flair to the track.
Brian Kotler: She’s an amazing young rap artist and I love what she did on that too. She really really made it her own and she did a great job with that. Giving it a very distinct I mean, she did it in her own timing. It sounds like a very bluesy type of laidback feel.
PAN M 360: So the event will be the performance of The Dark Side of Venus and then a kind of after party.
Brian Kotler: Exactly. I want to give people more for their money. The album is around 45 minutes so we actually filmed a music video with NeeNee Knightly, the opera singer. She’s in a theatre alone, well actually I’m there for a bit, but she performs “The Great Gig in the Sky,” and we have a drone that ends it going into the sky with a picture of my sister. So we have that we will show and then some more music from Drew Edghill, DJ Lady Savage. and more surprises.
Le band montréalais Vendôme présente ce vendredi 5 mai son premier album, La fable de la grenouille dorée, une véritable aventure musicale débordante d’énergie et de refrains accrocheurs. PAN M 360 s’est entretenu avec le quatuor composé de Cédrik St-Onge, Marc-Antoine Beaudoin (Marco Ema), Tom Chicoine et Bruno St-Laurent au Café Chat L’Heureux à Montréal afin d’en savoir plus sur leur cheminement depuis leur parcours jusqu’en demi-finales aux Francouvertes en 2021 et la création de leur long jeu.
En 2017, les quatre protagonistes se sont rencontrés au Festival international de la chanson de Granby et c’est à ce moment que Vendôme est né. Dans leur nouvel opus, ils racontent l’histoire de la grenouille dorée, un amphibien singulier dont ils ont fait la connaissance lors d’une sortie en chalet et qui les a suivis depuis. Tout au long du projet, les membres du groupe tentent de la protéger face au monde extérieur. Composé de onze pièces, ce nouvel album se dévoile comme une métaphore des membres de la formation qui font de leur mieux pour préserver leur cœur d’enfant tout en grandissant dans l’industrie musicale québécoise.
Pour la création de La fable de la grenouille dorée, tous les membres du groupe ont mis la main à la pâte, ce qui a donné vie à un mélange de titres qui explorent des sentiers pop, rock classique, folk et même psychédélique. La variété des avenues explorées par le band et le fait que chacun des membres apparaît vocalement sur le projet leur permet d’exceller autant dans des morceaux plus denses musicalement comme le Pays des grands que dans ceux plus personnels tels que 03.04.2019. Aussi, les pièces instrumentales qui se faufilent dans l’album ajoutent davantage à la richesse créative de la fable et rendent cet excellent projet encore plus cohérent.
PAN M 360 : Comment se sont déroulées vos deux dernières années depuis votre participation aux Francouvertes en 2021?
VENDÔME : Depuis les Francouvertes, on a beaucoup travaillé sur cet album. C’est pas mal ce qu’on a fait depuis la fin de notre parcours à cette compétition. On a aussi fait quelques concerts et travaillé sur nos visuels. On s’est beaucoup demandé « c’est quoi Vendôme? ». Au cours des derniers mois, on a vraiment bâti notre identité en tant que groupe.
PAN M 360 : Justement, quelle est l’identité de Vendôme?
VENDÔME : Notre groupe, c’est un vrai laisser-aller. En comparaison à nos carrières solos, Vendôme nous permet d’être libres et d’aller à fond dans nos pulsions et nos idées. Il n’y a quasiment pas de ligne directrice, c’est ça qui est bien. On se fait parfois dire qu’on est des enfants quand on est en groupe, et on croit que c’est un peu ça Vendôme. Ça nous permet de garder une certaine naïveté. Vendôme, c’est comme un groupe d’amis du secondaire, mais en plus vieux et moins niaiseux.
PAN M 360 : Vous n’hésitez pas à explorer différentes avenues dans La fable de la grenouille dorée. Pensez-vous que cela provient du fait que vous êtes quatre personnes qui chantent et qui sont impliquées dans la création musicale?
VENDÔME : On pense que oui, mais on croit que c’est quelque chose de positif. On frappe un peu partout, mais ça fait partie de notre identité. On réussit à trouver un certain équilibre là-dedans.
Tout le monde est impliqué et chacun de nous propose des idées de chansons. Si un matin Bruno écrit une chanson, on va tous vouloir en écrire une aussi, on se lance un peu des petits défis. Parfois, il y a des morceaux qu’on a écrits à trois, d’autres à quatre. C’est vraiment aléatoire notre façon de fonctionner. Bruno et Cédric se sont occupés de la réalisation de l’album et ils ont réussi à bâtir un genre de gruau. Un résultat qui ne se tient pas nécessairement ensemble, mais quand tu y ajoutes un peu de lait, ça fonctionne et ça devient vraiment bien.
PAN M 360 : Est-ce que ce « lait », ce sont les pièces instrumentales présentes dans l’album?
VENDÔME : Définitivement. Les pièces instrumentales rendent le projet plus cohérent. Cependant, ça s’est fait assez naturellement, on n’y a pas vraiment pensé d’avance. Ça provient directement de nos pulsions créatives. Comme on disait plus haut, on se sent libre quand on crée en tant que band et on suit nos intuitions.
PAN M 360 : Parlez-moi de La fable de la grenouille dorée, quelle est l’idée derrière ça?
BRUNO ST-LAURENT : Quand nous étions à mon chalet dans les Laurentides, nous avons fait la rencontre d’une grenouille qui nous a vraiment marqués. Elle était très différente des autres et avait une personnalité assez forte. Cet évènement est devenu tellement ancré dans nos mémoires qu’on a décidé d’en faire la ligne directrice de notre album. Ce qui est drôle, c’est que lorsque nous sommes arrivés chez la grand-mère de Cédric en Gaspésie pour enregistrer notre projet, il y avait un bibelot d’une grenouille dorée. À ce moment-là, notre concept a pris encore plus de sens. La fable de la grenouille dorée, c’est un peu une histoire qui ne peut être racontée et qu’on va enterrer avec nous lors de notre mort. Ensuite, si on parle de l’album, ça parle d’amitié, de trucs super banals et de choses qui sont plus grandes que nous.
CÉDRIK ST-ONGE : Je vois la grenouille comme étant quelque chose qu’on essaie de protéger tout au long du projet. Ça représente un peu notre enfance et ce côté de nous qui veut rester jeune. Sinon il y a le titre Vampire, qui représente la partie de l’industrie musicale qui veut nous rendre plus sérieux et limiter notre liberté créative. Ça parle aussi de notre recherche de la gloire en tant qu’auteurs-compositeurs-interprètes. On voudrait tous rejoindre le « Pays des grands », soit de faire partie des artistes importants du Québec et d’être reconnus. Tout au long, on essaie de protéger la grenouille du vampire, car il ne faut jamais qu’on perde notre plaisir de créer.
PAN M 360 : Comment allez-vous faire pour tenter de rejoindre le « Pays des grands » tout en restant des « enfants »? Est-ce que vous sentez que ce sera difficile de le faire?
VENDÔME : Au fil du temps, on accorde de moins en moins d’importance au « Pays des grands ». On se concentre plus à rester nous-mêmes. Plus on vieillit et on avance dans le milieu de la musique, plus on se rend compte que ce n’est pas nécessairement ça qui va nous rendre heureux. On met l’importance sur le plaisir de créer et d’éprouver du plaisir entre amis. On a tous nos carrières respectives et Vendôme c’est un complément qui est amusant et différent.
PAN M 360 : Votre avez créé le morceau 03.04.19 en avril 2019. Par le passé, vous avez mentionné que vous n’aviez toujours pas trouvé de sens à ce morceau, mais qu’il était tout de même extrêmement important pour vous. Est-ce toujours le cas? Qu’est-ce qui vous y rattache autant?
VENDÔME : Encore à ce jour, nous n’avons pas trouvé la signification de cette chanson. Elle nous procure beaucoup d’émotions et chaque fois que nous la chantons, ça nous procure un apaisement. C’est vraiment un mystère pour nous et c’est un peu pour ça qu’on l’a gardée sur l’album. Ça fait du bien parfois d’avoir un titre qui ne veut pas nécessairement dire de quoi et que tu peux te laisser aller dans l’émotion. Ce genre de chanson acoustique permet à tes auditeurs d’avoir un moment seul avec l’artiste, c’est superbe.
PAN M 360 : Le reste de l’album est-il autant « vieux »?
VENDÔME : 03.04.19, c’est la chanson la plus vieille. Il y a aussi Brian Jones et Pays des grands qui datent un peu. Sinon, il y a une grosse partie de l’album qui s’est fait récemment en 2021 et 2022.
PAN M 360 : Comment est né votre morceau Brian Jones?
TOM CHICOINE : Une fois lorsqu’on revenait d’un show à Thetford Mines, on s’est baigné dans la piscine de la mère à Marco. Disons qu’on avait fêté pas mal et qu’on n’était peut-être pas dans le meilleur état pour aller dans une piscine. Plus tard, j’ai repensé à ce moment-là et je me suis dit à moi-même « on n’était vraiment pas en état de se baigner, est-ce que l’un de nous aurait pu se noyer? ». C’est à ce moment-là que j’ai pensé à la triste histoire du musicien des Rolling Stones, Brian Jones, qui est mort noyé. Je me suis dit qu’il y avait quelque chose à faire avec ça, je l’ai montré aux gars et ils m’ont aidé à finir l’écriture. La création de la musique a été très spontanée et on a trippé sur la chanson dès les premiers instants.
PAN M 360 : En terminant, que signifie l’avant-dernier titre de votre album, Mon band Vendôme?
MARC-ANTOINE BEAUDOIN : Ce morceau découle d’une blague lorsque nous étions ensemble autour du feu. Bruno jouait de la guitare près du feu et on s’est mis à chanter « Mon band Vendôme ». Un autre jour, je me suis réveillé et j’avais rêvé qu’on arrivait devant une clôture dorée avec un chemin en or, un peu comme la pochette de notre troisième single avec la grenouille dorée. La seule différence c’est que dans mon rêve, ce n’était pas une grenouille qui nous accueillait, mais bel et bien Jean-Pierre Ferland. Je suis un grand fan de sa musique et de son album Jaune. C’est pour ça que j’y fait référence dans la chanson. Pour moi, ce titre représente notre dernier effort pour atteindre la gloire avant de réaliser que ce n’est peut-être pas ça le mieux. Mon band Vendôme, c’est vraiment une chanson d’amour pour mes trois camarades. Vendôme, c’est un peu une deuxième tentative pour moi, la première étant mon projet solo. C’est un renouveau.
BRUNO ST-LAURENT : J’aime ça que tu dises que c’est en quelque sorte la dernière « toune » qui parle du rêve de la gloire, parce que juste après il y a la chanson Au final qui dit que c’est le chemin qui compte et non le but. Le rêve de devenir des « grands » est beau et il faut le garder, n’est ce n’est pas nécessairement important de s’y rendre. Ce qui est important c’est de vivre notre vie pleinement.
Subscribe to our newsletter
Manage Cookie Consent
To provide the best experiences, we use technologies like cookies to store and/or access device information. Consenting to these technologies will allow us to process data such as browsing behavior or unique IDs on this site. Not consenting or withdrawing consent, may adversely affect certain features and functions.To provide the best experiences, we use technologies like cookies to store and/or access device information. Consenting to these technologies will allow us to process data such as browsing behavior or unique IDs on this site. Not consenting or withdrawing consent, may adversely affect certain features and functions.
Functional
Always active
The technical storage or access is strictly necessary for the legitimate purpose of enabling the use of a specific service explicitly requested by the subscriber or user, or for the sole purpose of carrying out the transmission of a communication over an electronic communications network.
Preferences
The technical storage or access is necessary for the legitimate purpose of storing preferences that are not requested by the subscriber or user.
Statistics
The technical storage or access that is used exclusively for statistical purposes.The technical storage or access that is used exclusively for anonymous statistical purposes. Without a subpoena, voluntary compliance on the part of your Internet Service Provider, or additional records from a third party, information stored or retrieved for this purpose alone cannot usually be used to identify you.
Marketing
The technical storage or access is required to create user profiles to send advertising, or to track the user on a website or across several websites for similar marketing purposes.
