The last time we saw the noisy post-punk/shoegaze pop act, Karma Glider, was on a concrete amphitheatre in Rouyn-Noranda for FME. This time we will see them in l’Escogriffe for POP Montreal, armed with all of the tracks from the first EP, Future Fiction. Before this appearance, we spoke with the founder/ frontman of Karma Glider, Susil Sharma. Previously part of Heat, Sharma started Karma Glider just before the pandemic reared its ugly head and now has a full-fledged bandthat is on its way to Burning Up.
PAN M 360: Take me through the origins of Karma Glider. It’s still quite a new project in the grand scheme of things.
Susil Sharma: The band is kind of a pandemic baby. I’d been making some solo recordings and got the group together to back me up for some live shows in 2020. Once everything closed down, the shows were canceled but we just kept jamming and eventually decided to record and move forward as a band
PAN M 360: At first listen, lots of Karma Glider’s music sounds pretty feel-good in a sort of indie rock vein with poppy post-punk, but are these songs coming from a deeper place? I ask because “Burning Up’s” lyrics can be taken many different ways.
Susil Sharma: Totally. I love bands like The Smiths, Echo and The Bunnymen and The Verve that can pull off that happy music-tortured lyrics dynamic and I aspire towards that same thing. I love filtering personal experiences like the ones I’ve written about in Burning Up and others through a medium that doesn’t make the lyrical content obvious.
PAN M 360:Going off that, as a songwriter, is it important for the song to have a personal context?
Susil Sharma: It really is important to me that I draw honestly from my personal life in my work, but I like writing oblique lyrics that don’t spell things out too obviously and leave room for the listener to connect them to their own experiences.
PAN M 360: Right from the initial 5 or 6 seconds on “In Deep Ocean,” I was hooked by that “wooo,” and video game coin (Mario?) sample. Where did that idea come from?
Susil Sharma: Thanks, man. I was listening to a lot of early hip-hop when I wrote the song. Songs like “It Takes Two” and “The Choice Is Yours” are big influences as is the production of Public Enemy, Big Audio Dynamite, and Andrew Weatherall-produced records.
PAN M 360:Another video game reference is with the “Burning Up” music video, which has to be one of my favourites of the year. Can you tell me about that creative process and how A Link to the Past inspired it?
Susil Sharma: Haha, thank you again. I was talking with the label about making a lyric video and I wanted to make something a bit more interesting than those can sometimes be. I’m not sure at what point I thought of doctoring the Zelda walkthrough but had I known how long it would take to make, I would have thought twice! Interestingly, my parents didn’t let me play video games when I was growing up, so I’m not sure where all these arcade influences are coming from…
PAN M 360: Was there any particular genre or decade of music that helped influence some of the sounds of Future Fiction?
Susil Sharma: Definitely lots of late 80s/early 90s stuff especially from the UK. Early hip hop as I said, lots of shoegaze and Britpop influence as well. I listen to a lot of noise-pop, soul, and jungle music lately.
PAN M 360: Have these songs changed at all in a live context? Room for improv?
Susil Sharma: The songs, and band, are really growing live. It’s really interesting because we never played any of these songs live before recording them and I think we’re starting to figure out a lot more about our strengths as a band at every gig. There are a lot of noise/jam parts that are improvised each show and are really fun for us to play.
PAN M 360: What’s the goal of Karma Glider? How far do you see the project going/ plans for the future?
Susil Sharma: I just want to keep making records and playing shows and I don’t see why we would stop doing that. Creatively, I’m still calling the shots but I really like making music with these guys and I hope to collaborate more deeply with them going forward.
PAN M 360: What can someone who has never heard Karma Glider before expect at the POP show?
Susil Sharma: Bring earplugs.
PAN M 360:Any other comments, questions, concerns/things the people need to know about?
The Orchestre symphonique de Laval kicks off its 2023-2024 season at Salle André-Mathieu. The task of conducting this first concert has been entrusted to Thomas Le Duc-Moreau, a rising star among the new generation of conductors. He will be the first in a series of renowned conductors including Andrew Crust, Julien Proulx, Jacques Lacombe, Jean-Michel Malouf, Simon Rivard and Naomi Woo, who will lead the Laval ensemble, which has been without a permanent musical director since Alain Trudel’s departure in 2022.
Trained at the Conservatoire de Montréal with Jacques Lacombe, Thomas Le Duc-Moreau’s career is already well-filled, as he is the youngest artist in the history of the Orchestre symphonique de Montréal to be appointed assistant conductor from 2019 to 2021. He has held similar positions with the Trois-Rivières and Québec orchestras, and has been guest conductor in Ontario and Europe, notably in Bonn and Prague.
Guest soloist for the evening is Ukrainian-born pianist Serhiy Salov. Winner of numerous prizes, notably at the Montreal International Music Competition (2004; 2014), he has made a name for himself through his humanitarian involvement in the Russian-Ukrainian conflict.
We had a cross-examination with these protagonists about the concert program.
PAN M 360: Tell us about the repertoire you’ll be performing with the OSL, an all-Slavic program. First of all, Thomas, did you put this program together yourself, or was it suggested to you?
THOMAS LE DUC-MOREAU: The program was proposed to me by the orchestra’s administration. The first piece is Glinka’s Ruslan and Ludmilla Overture, followed by Tchaikovsky’s Piano Concerto No. 1 with Serhiy Salov as soloist, and Tchaikovsky’s Fourth Symphony to finish. The first piece, very short at around five minutes, showcases the orchestra’s virtuosity, with very fast, exciting passages. We’re not into subtleties, we’re really into festivities. It’s really an overture that will set the hall alight. This is followed by the piano concerto, whose main theme in the first movement is very well known, with its great lyricism. It’s rather free, so we move from one theme to another, from one emotion to another, fairly quickly. In terms of the emotions deployed, we’re really into great romanticism, joy and exaltation, with great lines and richness of sound. I’d say it’s a concerto whose themes bring a certain positivism. We can feel moments of happiness, of greatness of spirit, of greatness of soul I would say, whereas in the Fourth Symphony, Tchaikovsky talks a lot about the fatality of human emotions. For Tchaikovsky, fate is inevitable, dramatic and necessarily pessimistic. The symphony will be about happiness, but other people’s happiness. It’s going to be about melancholy, happy memories that plunge us into a certain bitterness.
PAN M 360: Do you share this interpretation, Serhiy?
SERHIY SALOV: Yes, he could have read my mind! I would also add that a musical work is never “one emotional work”. In the Fourth Symphony, we have an absolutely dazzling finale and an extremely euphoric dance mixed with the tragedy that keeps coming back like a fixed idea. In the concerto, we have optimism at the beginning, which although written in the key of B flat minor, is bathed in major tones. It begins in major and ends in a bright major. But in places like the cadenza, for example, Tchaikovsky also draws on tragedy and depression. He was an extremely sensitive man who lost his mother at a very early age. His sensitivity was nothing short of exalted, and tragedy and depression were never far from his compositions. We always see a very complex being who is not in serenity.
PAN M 360: The title of the concert, which encompasses these three works, is The Slavic Soul. What does “Slavic soul” evoke for you in music?
SERHIY SALOV: It’s precisely this exalted sentimentality, the exposed, contrasting emotions. What comes to mind are the words of Milan Kundera, who said that the Slavic point of view is opposed to the American one. An American seeks a happy ending, a Slav thinks the world must end in apocalypse. Tchaikovsky’s point here represents a spectacular exception, as the first and third movements of the concerto and symphony both end with a resounding chord. The greatest Slavic composers, including the Czechs, Dvořák for example, have always had a more pompous nostalgia than the Germanics. It’s interesting because Austrian composers like Schubert and Mahler, took this bag of sentimentality anyway, which is heartbreaking.
PAN M 360: What does Tchaikovsky’s concerto mean to you, Serhiy Salov?
SERHIY SALOV: It’s a concerto that’s always been with me, that first accompanied me as a child when I was a listener myself and it was out of my reach pianistically. I always had this crazy desire to play it, but my teacher always forbade me to touch it because, obviously, my hand wasn’t big enough and also because the emotional side of maturity wasn’t developed enough. I finally tamed it at the age of 19 for the Marguerite-Long competition in Paris. After that, it became my competition piece. Now that my competition career is over, this piece will remain a friend for the rest of my life. It’s great to be able to present it tomorrow in Laval, one of the concertos that moves me the most.
PAN M 360: Is this the first time you’ve conducted these three pieces, Thomas?
THOMAS LE DUC-MOREAU: The symphony is the one I played most as a cellist when I was studying. I even conducted it at the Conservatoire. But I must admit that it’s rare for me not to be conducting a work for the first time. The concerto will be a first, and so will the overture, but surprisingly, I’ve already conducted the symphony.
PAN M 360: As far as your work as a conductor is concerned, you’ve worked with a number of well-known and important conductors, including Jacques Lacombe, who was your teacher at the Conservatoire, Bernard Labadie, Kent Nagano, François-Xavier Roth, Rafael Payare, Valéry Gergiev and others. What do you remember of their teachings, and how did working with them shape the conductor you are today and are becoming?
THOMAS LE DUC-MOREAU: That’s an interesting question. Honestly, maybe in a few years I’ll really know, but what’s certain is that all those conductors you mentioned have certainly had a huge influence on some facet of my musical approach.
The first chef I worked a lot with was Jacques Lacombe. There’s no doubt that his teaching is something that shaped me, that forged me and that follows me enormously. Even today, there are things he showed me seven years ago that I still think about today, and there are things I understand today in what he showed me then. I would also say that of my time at the OSM, with François-Xavier Roth and Gergiev, these are certainly the two where I found that in just a few seconds, the sound of the orchestra was completely transformed. It’s trying to understand “what’s doing that” that’s fascinating.
PAN M 360: What drives you when you’re on the podium?
THOMAS LE DUC-MOREAU: There are several things. I’d say that first of all, there’s the fact of being able to accomplish the result of all the work that’s been done upstream. For me, it’s dozens and dozens of hours spent in my office with the score, imagining how, with the musicians, with the orchestra, with the repertoire, we’re going to be able to convey the emotions of these pieces and the ideas they contain. There’s an immense excitement in being able to get everything I’ve dreamed and imagined out of my head, and to be able to communicate with the musicians. Then there’s just being in the moment, feeling the music. There’s something very physical about conducting and playing. You move with the music. The audience sits and listens, but for the musicians, there’s a gesture associated with it all. It’s very gratifying to have it in your body, to be able to physically express what you’re feeling.
PAN M 360: Let’s go back a bit, Mr. Salov, to February 2022, when you replaced André Laplante at short notice for the concert with the Orchestre métropolitain, performing Liszt’s Piano Concerto No. 1. You described this concerto as highly symbolic in the context of what is unfortunately still going on. Do you find the same symbolism in Tchaikovsky’s concerto?
SERHIY SALOV: There’s an even more direct and obvious symbolism in the themes Tchaikovsky uses in the first and third movements. The two main themes are drawn from Ukrainian folklore, which was never too far from Tchaikovsky’s mind, since he had relatives in Russia and he had relatives in the Ukraine. It was this Ukrainian kinship that he visited every summer and where he heard some really special songs that left their mark on him, not least in the first concerto. I’m delighted and comforted by that, too.
PAN M 360: In closing, I can’t help but ask you the Thomas question about the tragic event that struck the Kitchener-Waterloo Orchestra, which you have guest-conducted on several occasions, and which filed for bankruptcy a few days ago. What is your reaction to this situation?
THOMAS LE DUC-MOREAU: It’s certainly extremely difficult. Especially as next week I was due to be in Kitchener for a concert. There’s going to be a huge void. For me, it’s a week’s work, but for orchestral musicians, it’s whole lives that have changed in 48 hours. It makes us think a lot about the fragility of our institutions: we’re never really protected. For most orchestras, it’s one year at a time, so we’re never really protected from these situations. Right now, with my head full of Tchaikovsky’s music, I can’t help but make the connection with the program we’re about to present. In the symphony, he imitates a sort of sword of Damocles. And sometimes, this sword of Damocles falls. It’s always hanging over our heads, and we must never forget that it’s there. It’s all the more unfortunate that the musical director, Andrei Feher, is not only a colleague, but also a very good friend. I think if there’s anything that comes out of this, it’s that we have to keep fighting to show people that we have a place in society.
The L’âme slave concert will be presented at Salle André-Mathieu, on Wednesday September 27 at 7:30pm.
Programme :
Mikhaïl Glinka – Rouslan et Ludmilla, Overture
Piotr Ilitch Tchaïkovski – Piano Concerto no. 1 in B flat minor, op. 23
Piotr Ilitch Tchaïkovski – Symphony no. 4 in F minor, op. 36
Composer Nicole Lizée is a regular at the OSM: several of her compositions, some specifically commissioned by the orchestra, have been performed at the Maison symphonique. Not so with her Concerto pour percussion, whose title, Blurr is the Color of my True Love’s Hair (a wonderful pun on a classic song, don’t you think?), refers to the intrinsic character of the work and its sound universe. Not that the song itself is quoted (at all), but rather that the transformation of Black (in the original title) into Blurr corresponds quite vividly to what can be heard at several points in the score.
The Concerto, premiered by the National Arts Centre Orchestra in Ottawa in 2022 with Scottish soloist Colin Currie (who will also be in Montreal), and performed at the BBC Proms in London a month later, has already had a more extensive career than most contemporary creations. With good reason: Nicole Lizée is an inventive and original composer, whose palette of sounds never ceases to amaze and delight music lovers the world over. Blurr… is a tour de force of writing for both soloist and orchestra, and Montreal audiences, who will be able to hear it on September 27 and October 1 in the company of Gustav Holst’s Planètes at the Maison symphonique, will be treated to a truly astonishing experience.
I spoke to Nicole Lizée about this Concerto, performed for the first time in Montreal.
Pan M 360 : Hello Nicky. So great to speak with you again! So, about that Concerto for percussion, what’s the story behind it? What is it about?
Nicole Lizée : It is inspired by certain techniques found in stop motion film and photography. For example freezing, extreme and misuse of zoom and blur, dropped frames, image burn-in/ghost images, light leaks, and multiple exposures. I love the potential for creativity hidden in those ‘’unwanted elements’’ of procedure. So here, the orchestra and the soloist are used to sonically represent and embrace these erroneous ‘events’.
Pan M 360 : Can you explain what exactly is stop motion technique again?
Nicole Lizée : Stop motion is an animation technique where objects are physically manipulated in small increments between photographed frames to create the illusion of independent motion. Today, CGI renders the results slick and smoother, but I find the earliest forms of stop motion the most fascinating.
Central to creating stop motion is the black frame where the ‘trickery’ is carried out, unseen. Motion or animation is made possible by interruptions in the chain of images. During this interruption the animator modifies the objects off camera in tiny increments, which the audience does not see. The darkness is necessary to create the illusion of continuity. But the goings on during those unseen moments, which can extend for an indefinite amount of time, can be the most interesting. This work celebrates that darkness or ‘black frame’.
Pan M 360 : That is the technical side of it. Is there a more metaphysical aspect of this exploration of the relationship between visual and sound?
Nicole Lizée : Yes of course. The piece is ultimately about exploring the unknown, taking risks, and embracing the ‘blurry things’ – using malfunction-based visual effects as a jumping off point (dropped frames, misuse of blur and zoom, etc.) while using percussion as a vehicle.
To me, percussion – and the percussionist – represent the infinite possibilities of writing music with the idea that all sound is music.
The piece is set up as a concept album in that it runs in continuous sequence. Once the downbeat hits, the soloist has to perpetually navigate the obstacle course of percussion as one track morphs or blurs into the next.
Pan M 360 : Colin Currie is the soloist, also the creator of it on stage. How would you describe is contribution and your response to it?
Nicole Lizée : Colin Currie can play anything – I wanted to embrace his virtuosity and artistry while offering an interpretation of percussion music and ‘the concerto’.
Part of the performance is Colin’s running to each percussion station in the nick of time – each station is a different entity; its own ‘candy shoppe’ – with surprises at each one. Part of the excitement of the performance is to watch him move!
Pan M 360 : Not your first time with OSM. How do you feel, still after many years, working with that orchestra?
Nicole Lizée : When I was given the news that the OSM was programming the work I was elated. It is such a thrill and honour to work with this incredible orchestra.
Pan M 360 : Thank you again Nicole. Can’t wait to hear it live next wednesday
Nicole Lizée : Many thanks again for being in touch!
After more than ten years in the music business, Quebec DJs and producers Charles Cozy (Charles Cadieux) and Fruits (Gabriel Cyr) decided at the start of the pandemic to join forces under the name Or Bleu. Under the Disques 7ième Ciel label, the two men recently unveiled Beaucoup, a first offering of eleven collaborative tracks with local and international artists such as Fouki and Mike Clay. For the occasion, PAN M 360 spoke to the duo to find out more about the creation of their new project and their future ambitions.
Over the years, Charles Cozy and Fruits have carved out a place for themselves on the Montreal scene. The two men have DJed at numerous festivals in Quebec and internationally, while also collaborating solo with numerous artists. Although the idea of joining forces had interested them for some time, it was only when their schedules were freed up by the pandemic that they had the time to create more together. Over the past three years, the two protagonists have worked hard to build up an impressive catalogue of over 200 productions, so that they can approach different talents and eventually bring their first project to life.
With Beaucoup, the two artists showcase their talent as producers with carefully crafted instrumentals in symbiosis with the various collaborators. From trap to boom-bap to R&B, Or Bleu gives its artists everything they need to shine and offer the best of themselves, one of the duo’s great strengths. Admittedly, this great sonic diversity somewhat detracts from the album’s coherence, but can we really blame them for choosing to demonstrate their great versatility for their first calling card? I don’t think so!
PAN M 360: Let’s talk about the birth of your duo. When did you become Or Bleu and why?
CHARLES COZY: Gabriel and I are childhood friends and have known each other for many years. We’ve always maintained a strong bond of friendship, and we’ve worked together before. At the start of the pandemic, we had more time to work as a duo, and that’s when we started producing a lot. The pandemic helped us a lot because we were able to create together on a more regular basis. Once we’d accumulated a lot of beats, we thought it was time to send some to different artists with a view to starting an album. That’s how Or Bleu came about.
It’s always been a wish to be able to do something like this. To be able to create a project like this with your best friend is really something incredible. It’s really motivating to get involved with someone you’ve known for a long time because you know it’s going to go well and we have similar ways of working.
FRUITS: That’s exactly right. We knew that the chemistry was there between the two of us and that we had the same visions. Let’s just say we complement each other really well.
PAN M 360: Last May, you announced your signing with Disques 7ième Ciel. How did this come about?
FRUITS: It’s always been a goal for Charles and me to sign with Disques 7ième Ciel, it was our dream label. 7ième Ciel really reflects our values and we love the community aspect of the label. Most of the artists on the label are our friends and part of our circle. When we approached 7ième Ciel, our album was about 80% complete and there were already several of their artists involved. That was certainly a good argument for Steve Jolin and his team to sign us.
CHARLES COZY: Also, we know Sam Rick, the manager of Clay And Friends and Jay Scøtt, and he was the first person we presented the project to. At the time, he was Steve’s right-hand man. That’s how Steve heard about us.
PAN M 360: How do you create as a duo? Do you have a certain way of working?
FRUITS: The way we work changes from time to time. Often, one of us will take control technically and sit in front of the computer while the other comes up with ideas. We like to alternate our roles. One of Charles’ great strengths is coming up with ideas. He really knows the trends and has an excellent musical culture. We don’t necessarily have a miracle formula, but that’s the way we usually work.
CHARLES COZY: We know each other so well that we’re not afraid to defend our ideas and disagree. There’s no ego in the room when we’re creating, everything we do is with the aim of getting the best music possible. Sometimes we start with a sample, drums or a composition. We don’t always start from the same place, and that’s very motivating. We approach each track differently and we’re never tired of creating.
FRUITS: I’d even add that often our best productions come to life when our opinions are opposed. We’re both ready to defend our ideas, and that’s what produces the best results.
PAN M 360: You mentioned that the productions on your debut album are versatile. What are your respective musical influences?
CHARLES COZY: We’re big hip-hop fans. We grew up listening to boom-bap and underground hip-hop. Those were certainly our primary influences. Through that, we discovered the art of sampling, jazz and funk. We grew up in musical families. I’ve also been a DJ for 10-15 years. My DJ career is more in electronic music, house, techno and Brazilian music. Let’s just say that my musical influences are very scattered. I listen to both indie music and rap tracks in my car. I try to listen to new music as often as possible. For us, good music is good music, whatever the style. So we don’t put up any barriers when we’re creating. The sounds on our album are very disparate. We wanted to show that we’re influenced by a multitude of things and that we’re versatile producers.
FRUITS: As Charles said, I grew up in a musical family. When I was young, I played a variety of instruments. My first influences were certainly Chet Baker, Mile Davis, John Coltrane, Herbie Hancock and the great jazzmen of the 50s, 60s, 70s and 80s. I was immersed in all that, and it certainly shows in the way I produce. Then there’s hip-hop, which has been very important for me. I was greatly inspired by guys like J Dilla and Madlib.
PAN M 360: Let’s talk about your album Beaucoup. What was the creative process like for this project?
FRUITS: When we started creating together in February 2020, we did studio sessions twice a week. Each time, we spent 10 to 12 hours in the studio, so we were making almost twenty hours of music a week, rain or shine. For several months, we worked non-stop. At one point, we had between 200 and 300 productions done. When we were interested in working with an artist, we would prepare a personalized collection of some of our productions and send it to them.
CHARLES COZY: The way we operated was almost military. We never missed a creative session, and there was nothing that could change our plans. I’d arrive at the studio in the morning with coffee, then leave in the evening when it was dark. We made two or three beats per session. The more we did, the more motivated we were because we realized the quality of our productions. As Gabriel explained, we had production files prepared for different artists. When we felt confident enough, we started sending them to people like Lary Kidd. After that, we received several demos and positive responses. The more beats we sent out, the more responses we got from different artists.
FRUITS: It led to a certain ripple effect where at a certain point some artists would write to us directly to be part of our project. They’d say, “Hey, we hear you’re working on an album, could I be involved? There was a buzz around the project, as we had a lot of talented artists already involved. The Quebec music scene is a small microcosm. Everyone knows everyone else. It’s not like American rap, where there’s a lot of violence and drama. People help each other and like to collaborate. That’s certainly worked in our favour.
CHARLES COZY: I think we’ve managed to cultivate our connections over the years. Even though we hadn’t released an album, we were still known by several artists, because we’d already spoken to them or even collaborated with them. That definitely helped.
PAN M 360: What’s the biggest challenge in creating an album with so many collaborations?
CHARLES COZY: The biggest challenge was that we had dates and deadlines to meet on our side. From the moment an artist agrees to collaborate with us, we’re waiting for their verse(s). For half the artists on Beaucoup, we were able to be with them in the studio, so it was easy for them. For the rest, we either couldn’t get together because of the pandemic or because they simply weren’t in Quebec. For example, Gabe ‘Nandez and Illa J are American. It was sometimes difficult to get the verses. They tell you they’ll send you their part in a week’s time, but it ends up taking several months to get the whole thing. That’s really the challenge with a project like this. There are about 18 artists on our project, which is a lot. Sometimes we have to go through the managers rather than the artists directly, which makes the whole thing even more complex. Otherwise, it’s also a challenge to make tracks that appeal as much to the artists as they do to us. I’m very proud of what we’ve achieved – there’s a lot of work behind it.
FRUITS: There was a lot of managing to do, from coordinating our schedules with those of the artists to producing and promoting our album. Fortunately, we were able to count on the best record company in the business to support us throughout the process.
PAN M 360: Which of the eleven tracks on Beaucoup are you most proud of?
CHARLES COZY: For me, it’s Kiss you right with falcxne. My favourite artists are Erykah Badu & D’Angelo, and this is a song that’s kind of in that style. It’s very soulful. falcxne is a guy I went to high school with in Toronto. He’s younger than me, and I had the chance to run into him again in Montreal a few years later.
One day, we went into the studio with Pops & Poolboy, two musicians from Clay and Friends, and created the music for “Kiss you right”. It’s probably one of the songs closest to my heart and musical tastes. We decided to send it to falcxne and I was so happy when he sent back his vocal track.
There’s also the track with Eman and KNLO that I’m really proud of. They’re rappers I really like and it’s always been a dream of mine to have a track with them. It’s something I’m very proud of. Both of them were really nice, they came all the way from Quebec City to join us at our studio. It was great.
FRUITS: The song with falcxne is the one I’m most proud of too. If I had to name another one, it would definitely be the one with Mike Clay and Kallitechnis, simply because there are so many people involved in the production. I think it’s the one where we did the best job. The track is well put together, the bass line is solid, the drums are crisp and the harmonies are good. I think the lyrics are catchy and everything is really good. We had Mike and Kalli in the studio at the same time. It was really good to see them working together and to be able to observe the creation of the track.
CHARLES COZY: You can hear in “You can have it all” that both sing the chorus at the same time in the studio. It’s great to have been able to do that, and it makes the whole thing even better. In fact, that’s what we’re most proud of, producing a project and not just acting as beatmakers. I think there’s a distinction to be made between the two. When you’re a beatmaker, you create an instrumental on your own, whereas when you produce, you’re in charge of all the creative stages. You try to put the best elements together to create the best tracks. You have to be able to find the artists who are going to take your art to the next level.
PAN M 360: As a producer, what’s the best feeling you get when you’re creating?
FRUITS: Personally, the best feeling is when we’re in the studio and the artist nails the verse perfectly on the first try. When everything is perfectly in tune with the production, the feeling is indescribable.
CHARLES COZY: Oh yeah, definitely. If not, it’s probably when the rapper looks at you in the studio and you realize that this recording is the one. There’s also the moment when you finish a track and listen to it seven or eight times in a row in your car. That’s when your track comes to life and you realize what you’ve created. You feel so good.
It’s also an incredible feeling that our project is finally available. We’ve listened to it over and over again over the last few years to perfect it, and it’s like bringing a long-awaited child into the world. It’s great to finally be able to weigh in on play on online listening platforms and share it with the public.
PAN M 360: What’s next for Or Bleu?
CHARLES COZY: With this first project, we wanted to “put ourselves on the map” as a producer duo. What we want to do next is get artists to contact us and produce for them. We want to work with as many people as possible and explore different styles. We’re definitely going to make a second album, and we’re going to start on that right away. We’ve been very focused on getting our album out, and it’s been a long time since we’ve been in the studio together to create. We’re certainly looking forward to getting back out there. Also, we’re going to be doing some shows, so we’ll be able to tour a bit with our project!
FRUITS: We’ve already talked about the second project, and we’d like to collaborate with European artists. It’s one of our goals to have French, Belgian or other rappers and artists on our next project.
PAN M 360: You mentioned that you wanted to broaden your horizons and work with European artists. Do you already have any names in mind?
CHARLES COZY: Right now, I’d love to do a collaboration with Swiss rapper Makala. We’re big fans of French-language rap, and the Swiss are gaining in popularity. We listen to a lot of Swiss artists.
FRUITS: That would be along the same lines as Charles. I’d love to work with Gracy Hopkins, an artist who works with Makala. Over the years, he’s become one of my favourite rappers. If we can have Makala and Gracy Hopkins on the second Or Bleu project, it wouldn’t be a problem at all!
Photo credit : Louis Robitaille
“Is it a woman, a man or even a duo?” This was the question that swirled around social networks before Vacra, the French artist with the androgynous, honeyed voice behind the hits Tiki Taka and Plan séquence, showed his face for the first time at a concert last February. Even after revealing himself to his public, the rapper remains enigmatic and bets everything on his music, which has helped him accumulate over 100 million online listens on various platforms. A few hours before his appearance at Off Piknic, part of the MEG Montreal festival, on Friday evening, PAN M 360 spoke with him about his rise on the French scene, his Galatée project and his future ambitions!
Last year, Vacra’s track Plan séquence went viral on the TikTok social network, even though the song was released in 2021. From then on, Vacra quickly gained in popularity, and listeners wanted to know more about him. The only drawback was that the artist wasn’t showing his face on social networks or in his music videos at the time. As a result, rumors abounded on the various networks, and fans did their utmost to find the person behind this success. The mystery surrounding his identity and a succession of excellent releases, including Nunchaku and Tiki Taka, enabled him to make his mark on the French rap scene.
In February, Vacra released Galatée, an eight-track offering, followed by an enhanced version with three additional tracks a few weeks later. In this danceable project, the man explores a multitude of avenues, offering rap tinged with influences as much Afro as pop. Often compared to Belgian star Hamza, Vacra has a world of his own, with polished lyrics and infectious energy. One thing’s for sure: the French artist’s progress is breathtaking, and he’ll be one to watch closely over the coming months!
PAN M 360: Welcome to Montreal. Is this your first visit to Quebec?
VACRA: Yes, it’s my first time here. We’ve been made very welcome and the city is beautiful. The people here seem great and I’m very happy to be in Montreal.
PAN M 360: Do you know anything about the Montreal rap scene?
VACRA: When I arrived two days ago, I had the opportunity to listen to some music by local artists, and I must say it was very good. Otherwise, I’d never had a chance to listen to much Quebec rap.
PAN M 360: You’ve enjoyed a meteoric rise on the French scene over the past two years. For Quebecers who aren’t necessarily familiar with your art, could you briefly summarize your career path?
VACRA: At some point last year, my track Plan Séquence went viral on the TikTok social network, even though it dates back to 2021. My song Tiki Taka became popular, I unveiled my first project Galatée and went on tour all over France and even Canada.
PAN M 360: How did you cope with this extremely rapid growth?
VACRA: Very, very well! It was fulfillment from A to Z. Everything that’s happening to me at the moment is bringing me great happiness. I’m very happy to be able to meet my public. I’m very well surrounded, so I didn’t feel any pressure or stress. Everything came together naturally, and it was perfect.
PAN M 360: Of course, it’s impossible not to mention the unveiling of your face at a private showcase last February. Why did you choose to remain in the shadows until then?
VACRA: I wanted my music to speak for itself before people talked about my image and person. I also wanted to continue to be able to walk the streets in peace and quiet. It was very natural. We made music videos and visuals in which I didn’t appear, and the mystery gradually built up. This anonymity gave us time to work on the visuals for my Galatée project. What people appreciated was my music, and that’s all that matters.
PAN M 360: Why did you decide that the time had come to reveal yourself?
VACRA: The time had come to show myself when I had a project to defend and was ready to take it on tour. Before, I didn’t necessarily want to show myself and be in the limelight, but as soon as my project was ready, it was certain that I had to meet my public.
PAN M 360: Following the evening’s event, reactions abounded on social networks. How did you deal with the aftermath?
VACRA: There were all kinds of reactions. I think most people were pleasantly surprised, while others were disappointed. It takes all kinds of people to make a world. One thing’s for sure: I got a lot of love and good feedback. It’s been great.
PAN M 360: Do you want to continue to be mysterious and reveal as little as possible about yourself?
VACRA: I’m sure people will get to know me over time, but I’ll always remain mysterious. I’ll always be discreet, that’s how I am in life. I’ll be seen more in the public sphere, but that doesn’t mean I won’t be discreet. I’ll continue to put music first. You won’t hear anything about my private life.
PAN M 360:Let’s talk more about your music. For an artist who is just starting out, your music is really well-crafted. How many years have you been creating?
VACRA: I’ve been a music lover since I was a kid, so I’ve been in the music business for a very long time. I’ve been making music for a very long time, and it’s taken a lot of hard work and hours in the studio to get where I am today. I’ve been creating for many years.
PAN M 360: You mention that you’ve been in the music business for several years, and this is reflected in your music, which is a happy blend of different styles and sounds. What do you listen to?
VACRA: In general, I really listen to everything. I like to discover new things and draw inspiration from different worlds. I don’t necessarily have a favorite style, I’m very eclectic in my listening. I love everything!
PAN M 360: Last February, you released your project Galatée, and enhanced it two months later with three additional tracks. What was the creative process like?
VACRA: I already had a good base with Tiki Taka and Plan séquence, my two most popular tracks. My team and I locked ourselves away in the studio to work on the artistic direction of the project and come up with a coherent whole. It was important to me that my first project be solid. After all, it’s my first calling card. The creative process went fairly quickly, so we didn’t necessarily have to put any titles on the back burner. That’s how we ended up with Galatée.
PAN M 360: Where does your inspiration for writing come from? What are the recurring themes in Galatée?
VACRA: My inspiration comes from the people around me, what I observe, the human encounters I have and what I feel. When I’m in the studio with my team, we talk and reflect on different themes and subjects. It comes very naturally. I never write at home; I do everything when I’m in the studio. It’s a very fluid process and it goes really well.
For Galatée, I’d say that feelings, love and joie de vivre are at the heart of the project. It’s inspired by what I was experiencing during the creation. There’s also a nostalgic side. There’s a certain contradiction between happiness and nostalgia.
PAN M 360: The collaboration with Ronisia, “Non c’est non”, stands out from the other tracks on Galatée for its committed lyrics about consent. Do you want to take more of a stand on issues through your songs?
VACRA: I don’t think the subject of consent should even be up for debate. For me, it’s normal to respect someone’s choice, you shouldn’t even have to ask the question. So, I don’t know if I can say that I’m going to take more of a stand in my future songs, it was just normal to do so. I’m definitely going to continue to say the things that make sense to me in my songs. It’s normal for people to think I’ve taken a stand with “Non c’est non”, but I think it should just be natural. Unfortunately, it’s not natural for everyone, and if this piece can help awaken some people to stop doing stupid things, so much the better. No, it’s not, it’s simple though. I’m really happy with the result of this collaboration with Ronisia. Every time I sing it on stage and see people singing it, I’m very happy.
PAN M 360: As you mentioned earlier, you’ve released several videos in the past in which you don’t appear. In each of these clips, the dancing comes to the fore and is very important. Why did you make this choice?
VACRA: Over the years, I’ve received a lot of videos of people dancing to my songs, and I’ve always liked that. Personally, I can’t dance, so I’m always very impressed by their performances. For the videos, we made this choice because it went very well with the music. There’s something crazy about having someone dance to my music, and I love music videos. I’m very fond of dancing and I don’t think it’s ever going to leave me.
PAN M 360: There are a ton of people dancing to your tracks on the TikTok social network, which has been an integral part of your recent rise. What is your relationship with this app?
VACRA: First of all, I’m very happy with everything that’s happened to me, and a big thank you to TikTok. I’m very happy with the public reception and the fact that they like my sounds. After that, I think it was more my music that spoke to this network. For my part, I don’t really have anything to do with this platform, I hardly know it and I don’t have an account on it. Basically, I’m not really into social networking, I don’t understand anything about it. I don’t know how to make videos. When I used TikTok in the past, all I could see was cats and useless stuff, it was like I couldn’t understand anything. Anyway, it’s made a huge difference to my life, and I’ve gained a lot from it. Over time, I’ve proved that there’s real artistic work behind my music and that I’m not just a popular rapper on this network.
PAN M 360: You’ll be taking the Off Piknic / MEG Montreal stage on Friday night. What can we expect from your performance?
VACRA: We can expect the revelation of the mystery haha! No kidding, we’re in for a really good show. I can’t wait to meet the Canadian public and defend my different songs. As usual, I want to connect with people, dance, sweat and have a great time. I hope to be able to convey the emotions that can be heard in the project, and I hope to delight the people who will be there.
PAN M 360: If you had one song in particular to share with Quebecers before your concert, which would it be?
VACRA: It’s definitely Tiki Taka, because it’s my most popular song and the one I play on every stage. Canadians tell me that there are only three months of sunshine in Quebec, and they have to make the most of it. I have the impression that this song is the best for dancing and getting in the mood. Otherwise, I invite them to discover Galatée‘s various tracks.
PAN M 360: From what you can tell, what are you planning for the future?
VACRA: Right now, my team and I are working hard to produce the best music we can. When I have that, I’ll be back with new material. That could take six months, a year, two years or more. I’m going to take the time I need to create a logical follow-up to Galatée. One thing’s for sure: an album is in the works, and people won’t be disappointed!
In the 19th century, Vienna was not only the capital of serious classical musicbut also of waltz and other popular expressions. This Friday at the Maison Symphonique, the ArtChoral Ensemble reminds us of this in a Viennese evening of “songs, waltzes and romances”.
The “pop” romantic music of Johann Strauss II, a master of the waltz as we know it, and, more surprisingly, Johannes Brahms and his Liebeslieder or even Franz Schubert “who embodies the very essence of romantic vocal expression”, will be on the program of this Viennese evening offered by the ArtChoral Ensemble.
Long known as Ensemble Vocal Arts-Québec, ArtChoral was directed for almost 40 years by its founder Yves Courville. For 2019, the choir has appointed flutist and conductor Matthias Maute, also at the helm of Ensemble Caprice, as musical director.
PAN M 360: From the outset, Johann Strauss II and Brahms don’t seem compatible in the same program. How is this possible?
Matthias Maute: Well, it’s a rather special repertoire. It has to be said that the Brahms Liebeslieder are pieces written to appeal to the general public. For me, they were so different from the other Brahms pieces we know that it took me a while to figure out exactly what they were all about. And I find that he knows how to condense all that in these works. It’s just magnificent.
PAN M 360: It’s hard to imagine Brahms composing pop music!
Matthias Maute: It’s really quite special because Brahms was very fond of Johann Strauss II’s waltzes. And the two composers got on very well!
So Brahms composed operas and songs that included waltzes. This music was very popular, so much so that Brahms was a wealthy man by the end of his life, unlike Johann Strauss II’s father, whose Blue Danube was to be made. He was extremely poor when he died. His son, however, had done better and was still very successful.
PAN M 360: Very interesting. We’d have thought of Brahms as a modest man and Strauss as a rich man!
Matthias Maute: No, Brahms was on the rich side. He was very successful financially, and very generous to his colleagues and compatriots. The image of the poor artist, by the way, comes from the 19th century because there were no longer the outposts of earlier periods – with royal courts, churches and so on. The artist was then neglected by the upper echelons of society, he had to feed himself… it was often very difficult.
PAN M 360: So, serious and popular repertoires could coexist in the 19th century, as demonstrated by this Viennese evening.
Matthias Maute: We tend to put serious composers in one drawer and non-serious composers in another. But in real life in the 19th century, everything blended together, just as it does today. In fact, there’s a photo of Johann Strauss II and Johannes Brahms posing together in 1894. Brahms looks like an old man, with his beard and unkempt attire. Next to him, Johann Strauss II looks very elegant. He looked 20 years younger than Brahms, but in fact, he was eight years older! In general, Brahms was not interested in social conventions. He was known to be socially awkward, but there was nothing of the sort in his more popular music. It was very elegant, and highly inspired.
It may seem surprising, but the Liebeslieder are really part of his oeuvre, as he once played piano four hands with Clara Schumann, one of the great loves of his life. That said, he wrote the second collection of these pieces while in love with one of Clara Schumann’s daughters. It was complicated for him… (laughs)
PAN M 360: OMG, the Woody Allen of the time?!
Matthias Maute: A bit of that, yes!
PAN M 360: You also play 5 works by Franz Schubert in this program!
Matthias Maute: A Viennese evening without Schubert is unthinkable. So, in particular, three pieces for choir and piano. Before the interval, we’ll perform the famous Ständchen, an incredible piece for mezzo and male voices. A serenade to hopeless love, expressed with delightful music, truly one of the great vocal pieces of the 19th century.
PAN M 360: Let’s talk briefly about your two directions. We’ve already observed ArtChoral and Caprice working together, and this “natural” connection will continue this year. What will it be like?
Matthias Maute: ArtChoral will give two a cappella concerts at the Maison Symphonique, andCaprice will do three with ArtChoral. The following season, things will be moving up a gear. At ATMA Classique, moreover, there will soon be 15 ArtChoral albums that should constitute a digital library of the a cappella repertoire from the XVIᵉ to the XXIᵉ century. We’ve just released a romantic ArtChoral disc. And right now I’m talking to you in the middle of a rehearsal with thirteen Canadian composers that we’ll be recording next week.
The ArtChoral ensemble covers the entire choral repertoire. Choirs generally cover the whole repertoire. I love it because as a musician, conductor and instrumentalist, I’ve always covered every century of musical history. ArtChoral is the only choir to have a regular series at La Maison Symphonique, precisely because we want to promote a cappella singing. We’re working really hard to give choral music a more prominent place in the musical landscape here in Montreal.
PAN M 360: And it all kicks off with a Viennese evening at the Maison Symphonique.
Matthias Maute: There will be 1300 people coming to Vienna with us!
PAN M 360: Big charter trip!
Matthias Maute: Yes, it’s a big boat leaving.
ARTISTS
Choir: Ensemble ArtChoral
Conductor: Matthias Maute
Piano: Meagan Milatz & Suren Barry
PROGRAMME
· Johann STRAUSS II, The Blue Danube
· Johann STRAUSS II, Champagne Chorus
· Johannes BRAHMS, Liebeslieder op.52 (excerpts)
· Johannes BRAHMS, Liebeslieder op.65 (excerpts)
· Franz SCHUBERT, Ständchen, Der Tanz, Gott im Ungewitter, Coronach, Der Tanz
This Friday, the Molinari Quartet kicks off its 5-program season as part of the Ensemble in Residence series at the Conservatoire de Musique de Montréal. The next four programs will be preceded by Dialogues sur le Plateau, cultural mediation sessions at the Maison de la Culture Plateau Mont-Royal, designed to explain the ins and outs of the works performed this year by the Montreal quartet. Olga Ranzenhofer, concertmaster and artistic director of the Molinari Quartet, which she founded in the 90s, provides us with all the information we need for this kick-off event on the theme of Music and Nature.
PAN M 360: So, Olga, activities resume this Friday at the Conservatoire de musique de Montréal!
Olga Ranzenhofer: Yes, and it’s our 27ᵉ season. It goes by fast! At the beginning of our existence, our mandate was the 20ᵉ century, today it’s 20ᵉ and the 21ᵉ. And so we can’t be labelled exclusively contemporary music, we can choose from a huge repertoire including modern music. This year, for example, we’ll be playing Debussy, Bartok, Shostakovich and also more recent composers including premieres such as a work by Franghiz Ali-Zadeh, a composer from Azerbaijan that we’ve already played.
We will also be playing works by Montreal composer John Rea, who will be celebrating his 80th birthday with the premiere of a work entitled Objets perchés, in reference to another string quartet he composed in 1992, entitled Objets perdus.
These two quartets will be performed in February in a program also involving Shostakovich’s Quartets no. 10 and no. 13. In 2025, by the way, we’ll be doing the complete quartets a 2nd time to commemorate the 50th anniversary of his death, since Antoine Bareil (the second violin) wasn’t with us when we first performed them. It’s one of our trademarks to play complete works by composers for string quartet. It’s one of our trademarks to play the complete works of composers for string quartet. I really enjoy doing it! It’s such a formative experience to delve into a composer’s universe and discover the characteristics of his or her work.
PAN M 360: For most of your programs at the Conservatoire, you also do cultural mediation to explain the subject matter.
Olga Ranzenhofer: Yes, a 27th year of cultural mediation! In our Dialogues sur le Plateau, there’s something for everyone. We’re very inclusive, and anyone who comes along can find something to their liking, whatever their level of musical understanding. No question is out of place. Composers can also be invited to talk about their work, and others can speak from the audience. It really is for everyone, and we make sure that people don’t come away from our Dialogues saying “This music is too complicated”. Our first dialogue is scheduled for November 26 at the Maison de la culture Plateau-Mont-Royal, followed by a concert on December 1 at the Conservatoire.
PAN M 360: Outside the Conservatoire and the Maison de la culture, you have other concerts planned for your upcoming season. Can you give us some examples?
Olga Ranzenhofer: Thanks to a grant from the Conseil des arts et des lettres du Québec, we’ll be in New York in October, then in Toronto in November to take part in the performance of a multimedia work by Canadian composer and saxophonist Quinsin Nachoff, whose string quartet we’ll be playing this week. We also have other concerts lined up, including one at Salle Bourgie next January.
PAN M 360: What about Quinsin Nachoff’s Quartet, which you’ll be performing on Friday?
Olga Ranzenhofer: This work was written in 2018. And since the composer is also a jazz saxophonist, there are contemporary jazz influences in this work. It’s a work that could be described as atonal, full of energy, very rhythmic, andvery intense. The work is in four movements, each of which features one of the Quatuor Molinari’s performers. It’s a very complex work that’s a lot of fun to play: it swings, it’s intense and it lasts a good twenty minutes. And it raises a number of questions: is it really jazz, or is it downright contemporary music? There are clear jazz influences in this quartet, such as the little glides that start under the note in the manner of a jazz saxophonist. Our relationship with Quinsin Nachoff began when we took part in one of his projects through violinist Nathalie Bonin. Then he decided to make a string quartet for us. In fact, he has just obtained a grant to write a 2nd quartet for us, which we will perform next year. We’re very happy about that.
PAN M 360: And then, this season, the Molinari Quartet returns to Shostakovich, starting again on Friday!
Olga Ranzenhofer: Absolutely, we’ll start with her Quartet No. 11, the first of four quartets dedicated to Soviet musicians from the Beethoven Quartet (1922-1980), which had premiered the vast majority of her works for string quartet. Composed in 1966, this 11th quartet was dedicated to violinist Vassili Chirinsky, who had died the previous year. Written in seven movements, it is very introspective, very spare, delicate, elegant, and not flamboyant like many of Shostakovich’s other quartets. At the very end of the first movement, the second violin arrives; given the death of his colleague, the composer wanted to show the emptiness engendered by his passing. There’s sadness here, but also a touch of humour, because it seems that the Beethoven Quartet’s second violinist had a certain sense of humour.
PAN M 360: Another of your favourite composers appears on this first program of your season: the late Canadian composer R. Murray Schafer.
Olga Ranzenhofer: Yes, we’ll be doing Waves, Schafer’s 2nd quartet, a work based on the rhythm of ocean waves on the Canadian coast. Through his Soundscape Project research, he observed that there was a wave rhythm lasting between 6 and 11 seconds. So the whole structure of the work is based on this wave rhythm, and so we don’t work with measures but rather sequences of 6 to 11 seconds. It’s a wonderful quartet, really impressionistic. Really, at the beginning, it starts with nothing, it’s very gentle, you just hear the rustling of water, and then you gradually move into the middle of a storm, almost a tsunami! It then calms down… A truly beautiful piece!
PAN M 360: And Shostakovich again to conclude this first program, this time Quartet No. 12.
Olga Ranzenhofer: Very different from No. 11, very orchestral, very intense and conceived in two movements. The first movement is quite short, beginning with a cello bar that spreads out the 12 intervals (of the scale), a bit like a dodecaphonic series, but interpreted as a leitmotif through which the composer plays with tonality. Unlike the first movement, the 2nd is very long, lasting some twenty minutes, and can be divided into different sections. It’s very orchestral, with long solos, a magnificent chorale and more. So here’s a flamboyant work by Shostakovich, dedicated to the Beethoven Quartet’s first violinist, Dmitri Tsiganov.
So it’s a big program. We’re starting the year off with a bang!
Zal Sissokho is very active on the Montreal music scene. Heir to the Mandingo musical tradition, the singer-songwriter has been working with various Québec musicians since 1999 to promote this music. With his kora, Sissokho travels between tradition and modernity, questioning the history of music and human nature. His songs, sung in the Mandiko language, deal with a wide variety of themes, but always have one thing in common: they tell a story.
In the early 2000s, Sissokho founded the group Buntalo, with whom he recorded several albums. The band’s latest, La Source, will be launched on September 9 at Club Balattou. In anticipation of this event, PAN M 360 had the chance to speak with Zal Sissokho about the creation of the album and his music, which brings together several musical traditions.
PAN M 360: Hello! Your new album, La Source, will be out very soon. On September 9th. How are you feeling?
ZAL SISSOKHO: I feel great! I can’t wait for it to come out. After all the work that went into making this album, me and my little gang are really looking forward to it.
PAN M 360: In 2020, you released the album Kora Flamenca, then in the meantime, there was the pandemic. And now there’s La Source. What was your creative path between these two albums?
ZAL SISSOKHO:La Source is a very different album from Kora Flamenca. Kora Flamenca was an encounter with another milieu, another culture. Then, La Source is a return home, where I wanted to play a little more of the music of the Mandinka Empire and the music of the kora. The music of my roots, where I come from, the music of the griots. That’s what makes the difference between Kora Flamenca and La Source.
PAN M 360: Listening to the album, you can hear this return to the traditions of the kora repertoire. But there’s also something modern and contemporary about it…
ZAL SISSOKHO: Absolutely! But Zal Sissokho and Buntalo, which is my own band, is really what we’re doing. It’s Afro-Mandingo, “tradimodern”. The instrument I play, the kora, is a typically traditional instrument, but it’s also very well suited to all styles of music.
PAN M 360: Speaking of Buntalo… It’s been a while since you recorded with them, hasn’t it?
ZAL SISSOKHO: Yes, indeed. We’ve recorded three albums already, and La Source is our fourth. The last one was in 2018, La Palabre. I’m very lucky because I formed this group in 2003-2004, and to this day, it’s always the same musicians who are with me. When I need them, they’re here, they’re present. It’s a real honour for me.
PAN M 360: What inspires you when you compose for Buntalo?
ZAL SISSOKHO: For the few albums I’ve done with Buntalo, they’ve been compositions linked to what surrounds me, my human relationships, the encounters I’ve made during my travels and my shows, here and elsewhere. That’s what inspires me, and that’s why the music is inspired by culture, tradition and modernity. That’s why, in my compositions, there’s piano, drums, bass and everything… Every time I think of making an album with Zal Sissokho and Buntalo, that’s how I want it because I want two cultures to come together. I come from Senegal, but now I live here. So I’m trying to make it 50-50, a bit for home and a bit for where I live, which is here.
PAN M 360: And what inspires you in the local music ecosystem?
ZAL SISSOKHO: It’s very rich. We’re very lucky in Quebec, we find a variety of professional artists who come from all over the world, and who live here. So it makes it easier to meet people. Because if you want to touch something, there’s someone who knows it. Especially in this album, La Source, with the collaboration of my Senegalese brother, Élage Diouf, who took part in co-producing it, we put together the ideas to be able to give something great to our friends! Our friends who follow us, the public who follow us.
PAN M 360: You’ve described your music as “tradimodern”. Is this a term that has stuck with you since the start of your career?
ZAL SISSOKHO: I’d say so because I’ve always wanted to go a bit further with my instrument. The kora, in other circumstances, is a bit more limited. You can’t change tonality as you please. But I’ve always wanted to reach out to other cultures with my instrument, to make other encounters. These exchanges are shared with other artistic milieus, other cultures, and other styles of music. Because with every encounter, you learn a lot. You contribute, but at the same time, you also learn and receive a lot. I’ve always wanted that to be my label.
“Tradimodern” and tradition are very sacred to me because that’s where I come from. The repertoire is immense, and you could play it for thousands of years. We’ll never be able to perform the entire repertoire of the Mandingo Empire. But at the same time, to be able to reach a wider audience, I want to mix it with a bit of modern music to go even further. That’s what’s followed me since the start of my career here in Quebec.
PAN M 360: Let’s get back to your new album, La Source. Is there a theme that runs through the whole album? What inspired you to write it?
ZAL SISSOKHO: There’s a lot of variety on this album. There are songs about human dignity. There’s another one about not knowing what’s going to happen tomorrow. And La Source is above all a return, a tribute to our great-grandfathers, grandfathers, fathers and mothers. Then there are several tracks that tell a story. The story of an encounter, of the environments I share, of what I see.
When I came here, I was already an adult. There are stories I don’t want to lose, even if I stay here for 100 years. There’s that side of me that will always stay with me. But if you want to integrate into a country, you have to make up your mind, take on certain habits, and accept certain things, so as to be able to settle in and be part of the environment around you. So this is it. It’s an album that I really enjoyed making, because the themes are varied, and I want to make people aware of the role of the griot, a role that still exists, and get people to live in harmony.
PAN M 360: So this would be an album that recognizes where the kora repertoire comes from and honours it, but at the same time looks to others and the future?
ZAL SISSOKHO: Exactly. It’s amazing because human beings have always been nomads. For centuries, people have been travelling to somewhere better. Every time we go somewhere that’s not our home, we come back. And we always continue to settle somewhere else to fight, because life is a fight, every day, anyway. There’s nothing for free in the world.
PAN M 360: Finally, what can you expect when you come to the launch concert?
ZAL SISSOKHO: Only fun! Everyone’s going to be there to present these new songs on stage. It’s a party as if a new baby had just arrived! It’s a way for me to say to people, “Come and join the party! I’m going to take the time to introduce and explain the lyrics because I sing in my native Mandiko language. It’s not easy for some people to understand the messages I’m putting across, but I always take the time to explain. So, on September 9, I’m inviting everyone, music lovers, those who like what I do, and those who want to discover my music. Everyone is welcome!
Zal Sissokho will take to the Club Balattou stage on September 9 at 9pm to launch his new album La Source. The album will be available in digital format from September 8. INFO AND TICKETS HERE!
Do we still need to introduce Misstress Barbara, a true icon of the Montreal techno scene? For over 27 years, she’s been thrilling crowds the world over with her fine selection of groovy, hard-hitting dancefloor beats as a DJ and producer.A woman of many talents, she is also an airplane pilot, boat captain, sailing instructor and entrepreneur – she has set up her own chocolate factory, Chocolats Barbon – yes, nothing less! You can catch her DJ set hat at Piknic Electronik, for the 21st year running (!), on Labor Day, Sunday September 3. Local DJ Manu will be opening the ball. A ritual not to be missed!
Photo credits : Annie Rossano
PAN M 360 : You were born in Italy, where you spent the first years of your childhood. What musical memories do you have from this time?
Misstress Barbara :Yes, I was born in Italy and moved to Montreal when I was 7 and a half. It’s funny because recently, I was in the car listening to Julio Iglesias and my girlfriend said, “What are you doing listening to that? I told her I was feeling a bit nostalgic these days. These are childhood memories, I remember that on Sunday mornings, when I woke up, my parents would play Julio Iglesias vinyl very loudly in the house, while my mother did a bit of housework.
And what else do I remember? The waltz. If I know all the Strauss pieces, it’s because they were played loud in the house, on vinyl, always on vinyl. And yet, that’s not at all why I have a passion for vinyl. It’s just a coincidence!
I also remember Italian music from the 1980s. When I go back to Italy on vacation, whenever there’s a song from the 1980s playing, I sing it. I know all the lyrics because they’re childhood memories.
PAN M 360 : What musical genres accompanied you as a teenager once you arrived in Canada?
Misstress Barbara : I continued to listen to Italian music. My father has passed away now, but my mother still watches RAI on TV and listens to Italian radio, so when I’m at her place, I still listen to Italian music. But when I was a teenager, I had my first Walkman, my first money to buy music, I bought cassettes of The Beatles, The Police, Rolling Stones, Iron Maiden. I was really a rocker. I didn’t like current music when I was young, I didn’t like Madonna and Michael Jackson at all, it had to be rock.
The interesting thing is that I came back to it later. When you produce music, you go and get samples, often of disco. When I started producing music, I went back and got samples of Michael Jackson and other 1980’s music to put into my music.
PAN M 360 : How did electronic music come into your life?
Misstress Barbara : Being a real rocker, I didn’t really know much about underground electronic music. I’d hear what was playing on the radio and think it was disgusting. Back then, it was eurodance like Corona – This is the rythm of the night. Then one night, a friend dragged me to the Octogone, a nightclub on Gouin Boulevard. I didn’t like discos, so I was bored. It’s important to remember that this was the era of good underground house music, which was starting to come out of the underground and into the mainstream. For example, Hardrive – Deep Inside, Robin S. – You Got to Show Me Love or CeCe Rogers.
A guy looks at me and says, “Do you like house music? I say, “What do you mean, house music?” He replies, “I’ve seen you move your knee when house music is playing. You should try going to raves and gay bars, you’ll like the music there”
All that to say, I went to my first gay parties in bars, and I found the music so good! At the time, it was the Squeeze nights at Métropolis, there was the Royal, the Kox. It was really crazy, it was another world. Then I went to my first rave. I fell in love with this underground music. I said I wanted to be a DJ, that’s what I wanted to do, that’s it.
PAN M 360 : What was the scene like in the 1990s, when you began your career in Montreal?
Misstress Barbara : There was a magic to raves, and the parties were no exception. Squeeze nights at Métropolis (MTELUS) on Thursday nights were gay nights that had nothing to do with a show or concert. I had a fake ID to get in because I wasn’t 18 yet. I was hallucinating, there were people in costumes, there were drag queens, it was normal. And above all, I really got into the music.
Then at some point, as I was having so much fun at parties, I realized that someone was putting on the music. As I’m a very curious person, I always want to go further. This has been the case with DJing, production and many other things. For example, I started sailing, but that wasn’t enough. I became a captain, but that wasn’t enough, so I became a sailing instructor. I started making chocolate as an experiment, then finally I have my own company from bean to bar. It’s in my nature.
Once I realized that there were DJs behind the music, I started watching them work, what they were doing with their hands, the vinyl they were putting on. It’s what made me want to become a DJ.
PAN M 360 : How did you get into DJing?
Misstress Barbara : A friend of mine showed me the basics. I was studying film and I was involved in everything, including sound editing, so I didn’t need anyone to explain the wiring to me. Not without difficulty, I found my own turntables, then started practicing 10, 12 hours a day. I lived with my parents, who couldn’t stand listening to all that music. I’d go to school, come back and mix. Sometimes I mixed before going to school, that’s all my life was. No one can show you how to mix, it takes a beat and practice. When you take the record off, it’s all about feeling and musicality. If you’ve got it, you’re a good DJ. If you don’t, you do it mechanically, without any feeling. There are a lot of people like that now, especially because it’s the computer that mixes for you. But I really learned by myself.
PAN M 360: When did you start producing? Was it a natural and logical next step in the development of your DJ career?
Misstress Barbara: It’s worth pointing out that, at the time, if I had bookings as far away as Japan, it wasn’t thanks to Facebook, there weren’t even e-mails, I received faxes! The reason I got as far as Japan was that I quickly realized that if I wanted to tour the world, I had to have records out there, so I started producing.
Although today, I love producing for what it is, making music, aat the beginning of my career I said openly that I only produced music because that’s what it took to make a name for myself and get booked all over the world. But it’s always been a war for me because what I like to create in the studio is not what I like to play as a DJ. So if you create something, it has to be your calling card. If I’m a techno DJ I’d have to produce techno, and then I produce techno, but it takes a more effort compared to producing pop, something melodic. I’ve made 2 pop albums and that’s put a spanner in the works because people buy them, they say, “What’s this? It’s not Misstress Barbara”, because as a DJ, I play big techno. Do I want to change my DJ style? No. It’s always been this big paradox throughout my career, and even today when I have to go into the studio to make techno music I find it difficult, but I know that’s what’s expected of me.
PAN M 360 : A few months ago you posted a video of your performance at I Love techno 2002 on social networks. Is there some kind of nostalgia behind this publication?
Misstress Barbara : Yes, a lot of nostalgia, because first of all, the 2000s were really my greatest years. Then I started to slow down, and that happened at the same time as my pop albums. In fact, I was the one who felt I’d come full circle. I went around the world 43 times, returning to the same festival, not that I didn’t like it, but in the end, it was always the same thing. I earn a good living, but I need to feel that I’m feeding my soul, and I felt that it was getting a bit repetitive. I started writing songs and released albums, my first in 2009, which confirmed that I wanted experiment with other forms of music, without stopping being a DJ. But unfortunately it’s such a purist environment that if you do other things, it hurts your DJ career, and then it slows down on its own.
It’s also a form of nostalgia because I was young and carefree. There’s nostalgia because back then, everything was on vinyl. Now everyone’s a DJ, you don’t need to be talented. The computer finds the next song for you that matches the key, the style and does the beatmatching. Frankly, it discourages me. And then there are people who have a career because they have millions of followers they’ve bought. My own agent said to me, “Barbara, there are promoters who won’t book because you don’t have enough followers”. There’s a nostalgia for an era that’s no longer the same.
PAN M 360 : It’s your 21st participation to Piknic !
Misstress Barbara : Piknic is really special. I can play in front of 40,000 people in Andalusia, no problem. And yet, in Montreal, my hands shake before I play! Because it’s home, because it’s my audience, because it’s where I live and because I never want to disappoint any of my audiences, never, but disappointing at home would be fatal for me. It’s important to please my fans here more than anywhere else. Over the years, I’ve developed something really special with Piknic. I find the audience different, in fact, sometimes I even recognize some of the faces over the years, which makes it really special for me and keeps me going. It’s not just about going back to the event, it’s also about knowing that there’s an audience out there waiting for you.
Usually sighted as the collaborator of The Brian Jonestown Massacre’s Anton Newcombe, Tess Parks has a hazy psych sound that puts her listeners in a trance, and to take a momentary break from recording, she’s bringing that sound to the Festival Musique Emergente in Rouyn-Noranda.The Toronto, often UK-based singer-songwriter, has been busy this summer—working on the follow-up album to her 2022 release, And Those Who Were Seen Dancing. Before her solo show at FME, PAN M 360 had a chance to briefly chat with Tess Parks about her new music, why words are still spells, and channeling emotion into a song.
PAN M 360: And Those Who Were Seen Dancing has been out for a year and a bit now, so are you onto working on the next album or project?
Tess Parks: Yes! I have been in London this summer recording the next album. It’s the best one—I haven’t been this excited about music in ten years.
PAN M 360: Is the idea to “road test” new songs at live shows? Will we hear any new sounds at FME?
Tess Parks: I have really been thinking about this. I will do my best but I find it seriously terrifying to play new songs on my own for the first time. I used to go and play open mics when I was first starting out so I will do everything I can to channel that courage again. The songs on the new album are more of a collaboration than ever. One of my best friends and long-time collaborators, Ruari Meehan, is producing the album and it’s honestly a masterpiece—he’s going to become a household name after this. So he wrote most of the music for these songs and kind of re-taught me how to sing in the most patient and kind way… but anyway, I don’t know how to play these songs on guitar yet. I have a whole album’s worth of songs I wrote alone but I’m still feeling shy about them.
PAN M 360: It seems this album (And Those Who Were Seen Dancing) shifted to more of a piano focus than light guitar psych. Was that an organic change?
Tess Parks: I was living in Los Angeles when the last album was being recorded and I made a point of always wanting to have a piano in the house … we went and picked up a free upright piano from Craigslist that belonged to an old elementary school. I was just drawn to the piano more than the guitar around that time. Plus one of my best friends/bandmates/ collaborators Francesco Perini (Pearz) is the most amazing keys player so that’s him you hear on all of the songs – and then when we were finishing the album in Toronto, I got my dad to record piano on a few of the songs too.
PAN M 360: How do you determine when a song is going to be a bit “heavier” like on “Do You Pray?”
Tess Parks: Honestly, that song didn’t turn out the way I had expected at all. I would do a lot differently now.
PAN M 360: “Words are spells,” is from a quote you said around And Those Who Were See Dancing release. What did you mean by that and do you still believe it to be true?
Tess Parks: Yes 100% the truest thing there is to know! We speak things into existence. We summon experiences with our thoughts and our words. When I changed how I spoke to myself internally and chose to be deliberate about how I spoke out loud, my whole life shifted in the most beautiful way. We create our reality. Literally please try saying only nice things out loud, only words of love and your greatest hopes and dreams, and see what happens.
PAN M 360: You’re often referenced as a “psychedelic” artist, and that term used to mean a specific sound. But would you agree that the genre is such a huge umbrella now?
Tess Parks: Yes. Totally. All music is psychedelic. Like what the heck? Someone is just making that sound with their voice or moving their hands, which is just an extension of what their brain is telling their hands to do — on a weird instrument that someone invented and all these sounds are coming out and it’s making you feel a certain way … it’s the craziest.
PAN M 360: Do you have to be happy to write a happy song or sad to write a sad song?
Tess Parks: I love this question and it reminds me of Almost Famous – I hope that is the reference here. I guess if we are going with the notion that words are spells, then yes, I think these things are intertwined. But you can also write your way from sad songs to happy songs if that’s your intention. In a way, all songs are happy even if they sound sad because someone did the best they could to channel that sadness into something tangible and beautiful and didn’t just keep it inside.
Tess Parks // Katy Newcombe
PAN M 360: What have you been listening to lately that you find really inspiring?
Tess Parks: The new Vacant Lots song “Damaged Goods” has been on repeat for a little bit – but mostly a lot of meditations or silence. And in between recordings, we’ve been listening to a lot of reggae.
PAN M 360: Many people discovered your music through your collaboration with the Brian Jonestown Massacre’s Anton Newcombe, so going off that, what did you learn from working with him?
Tess Parks: Always meet your heroes.
A pandemic, break-ups, relocations and a multitude of shows later, the members of Montreal band comment debord are back this Friday to recount their experiences of the last three years with monde autour, a second album with a folk, funk and disco feel. At Café Pista in Rosemont, PAN M 360 met with three of the band’s members, Rémi Gauvin, Karolane Carbonneau and Étienne Dextraze-Monast, to discuss their creative process, their second opus and much more!
In 2020, comment debord made a big impression with the release of their namesake album. The soft, intriguing voice of lyricist and lead singer Rémi Gauvin, catchy refrains, a sound proposal largely inspired by the ’70s and a laid-back universe: these are the things that made the septet stand out from the start.
With monde autour, the Quebecers return to the charge with a more assertive and controlled offering. This twelve-track project features dance-inducing tracks such as ”blood pareil”, as well as calmer, more introspective ballads like “c’est quoi l’affaire.” As usual, the lyrics are polished, poetic and punctuated with Quebecois references, much to the delight of listeners. Comment debord has certainly not disappointed with this release, and continues to blaze their trail in a little-explored groove on the Quebec music scene.
PAN M 360: It’s been almost three years (already) since the release of your first album. What has happened in your lives since then?
KAROLANE CARBONNEAU: Like everyone else, there was the pandemic. Technically, we were supposed to release our second opus last year. We had to wait another year because of the pandemic. It took almost a year to record monde autour.
ÉTIENNE DEXTRAZE-MONAST: Apart from the album, there were a lot of other things. I myself had a child. Some members of the group have gone through break-ups, while others are now in a relationship. Let’s just say there have been a lot of changes since the first album. We’ve aged a lot and are now in our thirties. The reality of adult life has arrived faster than we thought. We’re at the age where we can have children and own our own home!
RÉMI GAUVIN: Phew, I’m not going to become one just yet! As Étienne says, there’s a lot going on in our personal lives. As for the band, we’ve been lucky enough to tour a lot together. We’ve been able to get to know each other better on stage and experience how our songs are received by the public. It’s an essential dimension for our band.
ÉTIENNE DEXTRAZE-MONAST: That’s a really good point Rémi makes. We’ve played a lot of venues all over Quebec, and that’s helped us discover our audience. We love talking to people after shows, and we’ve had some great encounters. Knowing that we’re not making music in a vacuum and that there are people out there listening to us, has given us confidence.
PAN M 360: How did the pandemic affect the creation of your new project?
KAROLANE CARBONNEAU: For a long time, we couldn’t meet in person. This made the creation quite different. Rémi would send us different mock-ups by e-mail and we’d all try to add a little something to them. We’d never worked that way before, so it was a big change for us.
ÉTIENNE DEXTRAZE-MONAST: Some of the songs on monde autour were written 100% remotely, while others were created when we were all together. There’s a hybrid side to the creation of this album. We had no choice but to develop new creative tools and do things differently. We were more spontaneous in the development of the project. For example, some tracks were recorded just a few days after Rémi had finished writing them. It’s quite different from the first album because these were songs we’d already been playing live for two years.
KAROLANE CARBONNEAU: It’s true that we were more spontaneous, but it wasn’t because we were lazy. I think we just wanted to give ourselves a certain freedom in the studio. We didn’t want to think too much, and I think that works with our music. When you’re creating, a lot of things come together in the moment, and that’s the beauty of it.
PAN M 360: How do you create music when several people are involved?
RÉMI GAUVIN: It definitely takes good communication. Everyone has to be willing to put water in their wine and have a common vision. It’s also important to put our egos aside and be at the service of the songs. We’re all learning to do that better and better.
KAROLANE CARBONNEAU: There’s an expression that says you have to trust the process, and that’s really what you have to do, especially when you’re creating with several people. You have to trust the skills of the different members.
ÉTIENNE DEXTRAZE-MONAST: Some pieces come together so spontaneously and everything falls into place, while others take longer to come together. You have to talk a lot and agree on the vision of the pieces. Sometimes we don’t all see the songs in the same way, and we have to find common ground to allow us to evolve.
PAN M 360: How do you go about writing your songs?
RÉMI GAUVIN: The lyrics are really up to me. Let’s just say the others have to trust me haha! For our second album, I worked on the lyrics at different times. Sometimes I came up with less complete pieces, with just a verse and a chorus. We’d work a bit on the music, then I’d go back and work on the lyrics, and so on. There was a lot of that going on with the writing around the world. I write quite intuitively.
PAN M 360: As on your eponymous album, monde autour also features little writing gems such as “je sais sweet fuckall pourquoi j’ai l’impression d’avoir trouvé quelle couleur crier après le ‘Omnikin'” in tranquillement pas vite. Where does the inspiration for such lyrics come from?
RÉMI GAUVIN: Honestly, there’s no real secret. As soon as I get an interesting idea or a flash of inspiration, I jot it down somewhere and use it later. I write down a lot of things, both expressions and concepts and put them into songs. As for the line about Kin-Ball, it’s a memory I had when I was a supply teacher in a secondary school. One day when I was a physical education teacher, I saw a Kin-Ball and it reminded me of my youth. I never played the sport, but I remember it fascinated me. Kin-ball players were very much associated with their colour, it was almost part of their identity.
ÉTIENNE DEXTRAZE-MONAST: Rémi uses lots of images and references that speak to people who are currently in their twenties and early thirties. The Kin-Ball line is an excellent example. He also uses a lot of Quebecois expressions and references, and that’s really cool. He uses images that are common to many people, takes them out of context and presents them in a different light. That’s the beauty of his writing, and that’s what makes it poetry.
PAN M 360: Your first opus allowed us to discover you and get to know your universe. What would you say this second project allows us to learn about your background?
ÉTIENNE DEXTRAZE-MONAST: You’ll learn that we know each other better musically. Our sound is more coherent and confident. We’re also more composed and less angry. We’ve found what we believe to be our identity as a band, as much in the poetry as in the music and arrangements. We’re also definitely more mature than on our first project. We’ve developed a better way of working, and it shows in the world around us. Through our new tracks, people will be able to learn about who we’ve become and what we’ve been through over the last few years.
PAN M 360: The cover of your new project features a magnificent fresco of flowers by Julien Cayla-Irigoyen. Flowers were also present on those of your two recent singles. Tell me more about your floral penchant.
RÉMI GAUVIN: There are folk and Québécois influences on the album. The concept with graphic designer and illustrator Julien was to draw inspiration from the flowers that grow here. We read different Quebec flower books for inspiration. The different flowers and colours represent diversity and cohabitation. In our training, we find different personalities. In a way, that’s what the flowers represent. Julien came up with different suggestions and was very creative. It was always very beautiful, and we decided on this illustration. We’re really happy with the album cover.
PAN M 360: One of my favourite tracks from your project is “tough luck.” What’s the story behind this track?
RÉMI GAUVIN: It’s one of the first songs we wrote for the album. It’s a song that talks indirectly about the attitude we should have in life. Everything can be improvised, and there’s no way of knowing what’s going to happen to us. I say “ça va peut-être tomber en neige, ça va tomber en pluie”, and that’s really the theme of the song, the uncertainty of life. During the pandemic, life was full of uncertainty, on a professional, social and personal level. It also refers to making music. We’re not sure where it’s going to take us, but we know it’s worth doing. I think there’s something really beautiful about it.
PAN M 360: The song “tranquillement pas vite” is sung by a member whose voice we’re not used to hearing. Who is it? Is it a desire to bring the different members to the fore vocally?
RÉMI GAUVIN: It’s Willis Pride. It’s the first time he’s had a song of his own on one of our projects. On our first album, we had different members appearing vocally. It’s something we like to do.
ÉTIENNE DEXTRAZE-MONAST: Indeed, we like to do it when it serves the song. Rémi tries to sing the songs he’s written, and when that doesn’t work, we find solutions like having another member sing them. Sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn’t. When Karolane sings Rémi’s lyrics, it takes on a whole new meaning. That’s exactly what happened with Willis for “tranquillement pas vite.” He took Rémi’s song, went to his place and rearranged it. It was really interesting and brought the song to its full potential.
PAN M 360: You’ve already made three videos for around-the-world titles, most recently for “veux pas.” At a time when music videos are being pushed aside by artists, why do you think it’s important to make them?
KAROLANE CARBONNEAU: I think it adds to the image people have of us. It gives another life and another dimension to our songs.
ÉTIENNE DEXTRAZE-MONAST: During the pandemic, I was a music teacher at an elementary school. When I told the kids I was in a band, they all wanted to see what I was doing. Their first reflex was to go to YouTube and type in the name of our band. It’s pretty anecdotal, but it proves that videos still have their place. Also, it’s extra content and allows us to show more to our audience. It lets people see us and gives our songs an atmosphere. When we make videos, we meet some really great artists. So we broaden our horizons and it’s great to collaborate with artists who aren’t necessarily musicians. It makes our art multidisciplinary.
PAN M 360: You’ll be making your Montreal debut at Club Soda on November 3. What can we expect from this concert?
KAROLANE CARBONNEAU: To a great show. We want to do something unique. We can’t reveal too much, but there might be guests. I think it’s going to be worth it!
ÉTIENNE DEXTRAZE-MONAST: We’ve been working on this show for a few months, and we’re still making changes. This show will open our upcoming tour. It’ll be our biggest venue yet, and a lot of our friends will be there. It’s going to be a lot of fun, that’s for sure.
Meet Jacob Allen, better known by his stage moniker: Puma Blue. London-born and now Atlanta-based, Puma Blue’s initial success was thanks to his dusky, romantically melancholic approach to music, crafting a unique blend of neo-R&B, alternative rock, and jazz for an intimate, cloudy day vibe that you’d be hard-pressed to find elsewhere.
However, with his upcoming album Holy Waters on the cusp of release, we’re now seeing a revived chapter of growth in Allen’s aesthetic sensibilities. Vast and expansive, there’s a distinctly new sensation on the new album that shows us the true possibilities of Puma Blue—not only as a musician, but as a curator of taste and style across multiple visual, written, and sonic mediums.
PAN M 360 recently sat down with Allen for a conversation on the album’s creation, the inspiration behind its themes, the process of writing his notoriously metaphor-laden, poetic lyrics, and the pros and cons of communion with your younger self.
PAN M 360: It’s been a long road as you roll out singles and marketing for Holy Waters. Does that feel different from how you’ve handled the releases for your last album or your earlier work?
Jacob Allen: It does feel different but in a positive way. I feel like last time, we rolled out some singles and everything, but the world was still kind of closed down. And I remember, by the time that album came out, I was feeling very spiritually far away from it. Whereas this time, even though the first single technically came out last year—“Hounds,” we put that out, I think kind of ambitiously, hoping that the next singles could follow quite quickly, and the album could follow that. And it’s ended up being quite a gap.
But this time, I felt really prepared. I’ve had a lot more forethought about the visuals. And every time I’ve sat down for an interview like this, I feel like I know the album really well. And I can sort of answer questions from the heart rather than from the brain. And what’s weird is that, even though there’s been all this time, I still feel really proud of the album and really close to it, which I didn’t really have last time. I remember just feeling like, ‘Okay, it’s time to promote this thing that feels like from forever ago,’ whereas now, for whatever reason, this album still feels very fresh to me.
PAN M 360: Besides the music, what’s been most inspiring for the striking visual direction of Holy Waters?
JA: Lots of films, I suppose. There’s a couple that have been pretty inspired by John Cocteau films. He’s someone that my partner really put me on to—I already knew who he was, but more specifically, I think for his illustrations. Then, during the pandemic, he was kind of a reference point for her. We were watching a lot of his films and I was really drawn to a couple of them, and it’s sort of slowly seeped into my subconscious now, so I’ll have an idea and I’ll realize it’s referencing one of his films. So he was a big inspiration.
For the “O, The Blood!” video, which is the first time I’ve really directed properly, I just wanted to make an old TV show-type thing. So that was inspired by the “In Bloom” video from Nirvana and The Eric Andre Show. I was kind of wanting to show my sillier side. I feel like everyone probably assumes I’m quite a moody person. I’m not at all in real life, I don’t think. But I was looking back at all the videos and I was thinking, ‘Man, all the videos I grew up watching used to make me laugh.’ Like the Chili Peppers, Foo Fighters, or the Beastie Boys, there was always that something to make you laugh, and I was thinking it’s a shame I haven’t done that. So that was kind of the inspiration behind that one—what could I do that would be just like silly, like just a good time? And that was what came to mind for some reason.
I guess it’s been an interesting challenge to make everything feel cohesive with this album because it goes to so many different sonic places. But that ended up being a strength I think, just being able to keep it quite loose, and not such a particular aesthetic. I’ve got all these ideas that all feel true to the songs, and so the idea was just to keep them cohesive by using black and white all the way through. And hopefully, they all feel like they’re sort of the same album world. That’s given me a bit of freedom, in terms of how they’re shot or what the story is, or what I’m wearing, or whatever. It’s a bit more reflective of me, rather than being so narrow.
PAN M 360: Has anything surprised you, for better or for worse, about working and composing so much with the band versus the more independent work you were doing prior?
JA: I mean, the biggest thing was how much more proud I am of the music now, compared to before. Because I feel like I’m able to kind of step back from these finished recordings. And man, even when I was producing the stuff at home that we’d recorded in the studio, I was a lot more into it, because it would be the sound of like, Cam [Dawson] on the bass and Ellis [Dupuy] on the drums doing something really cool. So I was less self-conscious and more, almost listening as a fan. Which felt really fresh to me.
There were definitely some things that were hard, like when we’d hit a wall. It was a team hitting a wall as opposed to just, you know, on my own—it’s kind of easier to just call it quits and take a walk. But when you’re all together it feels like sometimes you have to push through a bit harder, and you can get discouraged for a second when it’s not working. But we ended up getting into a good rhythm when that would happen—just going for a swim in the sea and coming back 40 minutes later and feeling adjusted. A cold plunge.
But the other thing that was huge for me was how organically stuff happened. I think, by myself, there’s a limit to how cerebral the process can be. I love making music on my own, but with the band, it wasn’t so straightforward. Because some things would diverge into jams. There are just all these extra heads and hands that are going to make mistakes or come up with a weird idea. And yeah, some of the music that came from jams—how could that have happened on my own?
(Puma Blue) Jacob Allen / Liv Hamilton
PAN M 360: You’ve mentioned that Holy Waters centres a lot around death thematically, did you set out to do that or is it something that just arose as you worked on it?
JA: Definitely the latter. I was actually pretty stuck. I was having about a year-long period of writer’s block in 2021 that started around the end of 2020 and lasted until maybe the autumn of 2021. And I was writing things for sure, it wasn’t textbook writer’s block where I just had a blank page. I was definitely writing a lot of stuff, but I just didn’t like any of it. And I didn’t seem to be making any progress as an artist, and I was getting really stressed about it. Eventually, when I broke through that and started just having fun with music again, which was kind of the key, I think what helped was not having any limit on what I was doing. It was just like, I’m going to make music that feels like me, and feels like fun, and feels like it would be exciting to finish or to play with the guys. So there definitely wasn’t an idea of concept or theme. It was very open and I was just writing about whatever came to me.
And what’s so strange is that I did start to see a pattern. And it’s not on every song by any means—it’s not a concept album. But in a lot of them, I just kept thinking, ‘God, death is coming up a lot for me.’ So once I made that realization, I think it started this feedback loop where I would write about death more, or I’d consider it more when I was finishing lyrics, or later when I was examining the visuals, or even the tracklist and the order of the flow, some of these songs would pair well, just because of the themes. So yeah, it wasn’t an accident, but it definitely wasn’t something I set out to do from the start.
PAN M 360: Did it take a long time to come up with a sequence of songs that felt right?
JA: It did this time, yeah. I remember on the last album, I had such an idea from the beginning of how it would start and which tracks should go near the end. And the EPs, they’re short enough that it’s a pretty easy Rubik’s cube to solve. But this time—in a positive way, because I loved every track so much, and I didn’t feel like there was any point that was filler for me. And not that I think my last records have had such weak points, but there were definitely moments where it’s like, obvious: ‘Okay, this is a slamming song, and this is the more of a cloudy, ambient mood interlude piece.’
This time, there were songs that ended up being like tracks seven or eight, or whatever, where I considered putting them within the first three tracks, and it took a long time. And it wasn’t until I settled on which songs were being used that it started to be a bit easier. Now that I know it’s these 11, maybe it’s obvious that this one has to be the opener and so on. But I think what ended up helping me finish the sequence of it was a lesson I learned from the last project. I kind of get lethargic when I listen to the last album. And I wanted to make it kind of a sleepy headphone listen, but now when I listen back to it, I get a little itchy and I wish that it was like a few songs shorter or whatever.
So this time, I just want people to be pulled in—almost like the holy waters metaphor, you know, like a swirling that you’re sucked into. And I don’t want anyone to feel like they can pause it. I want it to feel like each track just leads into the next one, almost with a sense of urgency. So that was kind of the goal. And I don’t know if other people will feel it, but that’s definitely when I felt like it was done. When it was doing that sensation for me.
PAN M 360: Do you feel like the making of Holy Waters took you out of your comfort zone?
JA: Yeah, yeah it did. Even working with the band is the first thing that comes to mind. Because we’ve done so much together over the years live. But it’s very different from writing together. Even at the start, we weren’t supposed to write together. We just got into the studio to work on my demos and arrange them, and sort of do something with them live. And eventually, it just kind of became this thing where we were writing together. That definitely felt like pretty new territory and I wasn’t sure how that was gonna go. And there were challenges that just came up naturally during the process, where I was like, ‘Okay, I’ve never done this before, or dealt with this problem before, but I’m just gonna, you know, deal with it.’
I think also I’m so used to writing and producing in the box, on my laptop, and then finishing. What I tend to do is make a demo, not thinking that it’s going to end up as the final song. And then I’ll just work on a demo until it feels done. And I’m like, ‘Well, that demo is the song, you know, I wasn’t giving it enough credit before.’ And that’s why my shit I think has been so lo-fi in the past, maybe, because it’s everything is a demo that got finished. Whereas this time, I really was making demos, and then going into the studio and recording them, quote-unquote “properly,” or differently, I suppose is a better way of putting it. And then what I’ve never done before is bring stuff back from the studio and produce that. So that was a new challenge, trying to make this warm, but pretty flat acoustic sound from the studio, trying to bring that back into the sort of sonic world of mine, where it’s a bit more production-heavy and a bit more … dusty and ambient. It was tricky at first to start the process where it became this hybrid thing.
But eventually, I realized it wasn’t that different from what I’ve always done. It was just different ingredients and a slightly different approach. And it ended up being a bit more freeing. Instead of a programmed drum loop that I’ve got to program human feeling into, I’ve just got my friend playing the drums in a very human way. And I’ve got to find a way of making it sound a little bit more as if it’s a loop when I know that it isn’t, and that was a good way to do it. There was so much to work from. But it definitely took me out of my comfort zone once or twice. But I hope I hope that music always does, you know?
Puma Blue (Jacob Allen) / Natalie Hewitt
PAN M 360: Do you do any journaling or other writing that isn’t immediately meant to be lyrics? Do old words ever end up being used when you’re writing a new song?
JA: Absolutely. I write my dreams down. I did get into journaling for like, a month earlier this year or last year, and I kind of let it go, unfortunately. I feel like it’s a really good practice, but I just didn’t follow up on the discipline side of it. But I still write my dreams down. But aside from that, I’m writing poetry a lot. Probably more than I write lyrics—I feel like lyrics are such a specific thing. I usually only write lyrics when a song is already forming. I don’t know if that’s bad, maybe other songwriters write lyrics all the time. But once I know I’m writing for a song, then lyrics start happening. But I write poems all the time, and I’ve been thinking about whether I should publish some of them next year. Because I really, really love it. It’s a nice change of medium for me to only worry about the words. So, when I’m writing songs, I’ll often borrow stuff from my poems, or rehash it.
Sometimes I’ve got a poem that I really like, but it doesn’t lend itself to a song in the way that I’ve written it. So I have to kind of re-edit it. Not always to rhyme, but just the rhythm or whatever. So I find myself doing that a lot. I’ll even sometimes borrow just one line or something, and it will start a song of its own. That can be kind of interesting. “Velvet Leaves,” from the last album, was one of my longest poems ever, but only the chorus of the song is from the poem, and I don’t think the rest of the poem made it into the song at all. It ended up being a bit more realistic and direct in the lyrics and the verses, whereas the poem that the lyrics are from is a lot more abstract. And I think through this process, like you’re asking, a lot of subconscious stuff will come up.
For example, on this album, “Mirage” is a song about my friend who passed away. But she passed away years ago, like 2015 or 2016. So, that feels like a long time, and I’m not sitting around necessarily still grieving every day, at all. But I found myself writing music and singing, and what was coming up was undealt-with feelings around her. And the feeling of this time that I thought I had recognized her at a train station. And obviously, it wasn’t. I find it’s kind of freeing to be able to write about something that maybe you still have emotions attached to. I think the subconscious kind of holds onto a lot unless you deliberately expunge. That’s what therapy is really good for, I suppose. It’s like a cleaning out of the subconscious. There are other practices too, like meditation. But for me, I guess music is one of those practices.
PAN M 360: Do you ever worry about giving too much away to people in your life when you’re writing, like a friend of yours will realize you’ve written a song about them?
JA: Maybe there’s an example I’m forgetting, but honestly, no. I think first of all, I feel like I wear my heart on my sleeve around my close friends—most of the time. I mean, I can definitely be a guarded and sort of bashful person, but for the most part, I think I’m quite emotionally open. And there’s nothing in my songs that I’m embarrassed of, you know? And sometimes a song will feel bold when I write it. And then once I’ve finished it, or maybe once it’s out, it sort of no longer feels bold. I just feel like, ‘Well, I said that thing, and now that it’s out there, I’m not embarrassed.’
But there are times I’ve wondered if this person will clock that this is for them. Particularly with the earliest stuff that I was releasing, you know, there’s a lot of songs about heartbreak or crushes. And I’m not really one to tell people when a song is about them, to be honest. So there were times when I was kind of like, do I want them to know? Or do I not want them to know? So I would just keep it to myself and wonder.
With this album, there’s not so much of that. The songs that are directly about someone are about my partner, and I can talk to her freely about that. And it’s really nice. There are two about my grandparents, and they’re no longer with me. So if anything, I wish I could share with them, and I can’t. There’s one about my friend that passed, as I mentioned—and maybe that’s the one where I’m like, unsure of how it will feel out there in the world. But that was just some personal reflection, so I can’t really worry about it. And for the first time, I feel like the rest of the songs—something I feel like I haven’t really done before—are just singing about ideas, feelings, and concepts that are not centered around a person.
I feel like if I can look back at most of my music, there’s some kind of subject—as in a person as a subject. Someone I’m singing to or about. Songs like “Too Much,” or “Falling Down,” or “Light is Gone,” they feel a little bit more contemplative. And it’s taken me a long time to really get there. I mean, there have been examples before, but I still feel like most of them have some kind of subject involved somehow. It’s been really cool to write stuff that isn’t necessarily always about people. I think another side of that is I try not to say anything in songs that I wouldn’t be comfortable saying in real life. It’s not such a dirty secret thing for me. It’s either things I wish I had said, or could say, or it’s just things that I’m openly feeling. I don’t tend to write anything bitter, where I shouldn’t say that to someone’s face. I don’t know, maybe time will tell. Maybe on the next album, there’ll be songs that feel that way. But for now, I feel pretty comfortable being open with the songs and what they’re about, which is a good feeling.
PAN M 360: If you could go back and talk to Jacob in 2016 and 2017 as he was working on Swum Baby, would you want to tell him anything?
JA: Oh, man. Um… I mean, in a way, no, I don’t want to talk to him. Because everything happened the way it was supposed to, right? That’s the problem with time travel. Well, I guess he probably needed to know things were going to be okay. I wasn’t doing so well back then. I was pretty depressed. I mean, I was excited about making the EP, so that kind of kept me going. But it would have been so nice to have some kind of affirmation from the future, I suppose. But you have to figure that out on your own, and in a way, I’m saying it now. So maybe in the past, I somehow knew it was going to be okay. But I would have just loved to have had a hug or something from my future self. Some kind of comforting knowledge of how things were gonna turn out. I probably would have just taken myself out for a walk and got some fucking sunlight. That would have been really healthy.
I think in a weird way, what I’d love to do is show myself the music from this album. That would be really interesting. Because it feels so much more evolved than my shit from back then and it feels a lot more confident and better reflective of who I am, and that might be really encouraging—because it took a long time to really get here. I guess, in short, my answer is no. [Laughs] You need to figure it out. But of course, if I could give some love to myself back then somehow, that would be really nice. I was kind of on the cusp, during the making of that EP. Things had been up and down, but pretty good before. But once it got to that point in time, I was kind of on the cusp. Like, within about six months, things were gonna really start looking up for me, but they were at their low point in a major way. And so even a message from a year in the future would have probably helped a lot.
It’s such a weird concept because I don’t know that it would have helped. I probably would have just kept worrying. It wouldn’t have cured my depression to hear from my future self. I had to go through that time to evolve and transform at that pace. But I think all in all, my younger me would be really psyched about this record—I think any of my younger selves, but especially the further and further I go back. I think my 12-year-old self would be so into this album, and that’s a really nice feeling.
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